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#31
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #31
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Standalone, purely as a tech gadget - its a cool proposition

German styling
The promise of better than simulator audio
The promise of recall of real amp setups for later 'fixes' or mind changes.
A pool of studio sourced patches for it

#32
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
...Right out of the box 99% of profiles sound like poo. You have to edit them heavily to your specific guitar and pickup, and editing is fairly complex with small detailed sweet spots that are completely dependent on your chain, guitar and pickup...
Interesting to hear your experience so far. If the Kemper were able to accurately profile the response of an amp, as claimed, then I'd have thought this ought not to be the case.

Presumably this issue arises because it can only profile the response based on the rage of signals/nuances it receives during profiling, so if you change out anything in the upline chain (presumably including the player or playing style etc) it has little to work with to 'map' the amp response to those given inputs.

If so, same essential issue with most PI emulations - they give a predictable (and more or less accurate) result for certain predictable inputs, but throw them anything slightly out-of-field and the results are less predictable/useful IMO.
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#33
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Umm!

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Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
You know, Bassmec...I'm gonna just bail out of this thread. I REALLY don't care if you don't like the Kemper. I literally just earned some money with it yesterday. This was an obvious troll and I fell for it.
It's people like this that make GS's annoying. The ENTIRE purpose of this thread was to come on here and pump yourself up about how you have superior ears than the rest of us and you are a gear snob, blah, blah, blah. OK - you win - the Kemper sucks.

Now...back to making music and money.
Suit yourself mate, but this is gear sluts hi end and I thought we were all interested in seeing all sides of the coin from the oldest to the newest technology.

I am interested in modelling amps but am also worried about the future when people can just make an acceptable sounding record at a push of a button based on other people's talent, life's work, best decisions and massive investment in gear and premises.

Every step in this direction is a step away from what I love most, which is Rock and Roll excess without any of the fashionable current downsizing.
Please don't downsize my Rock and Roll anymore than it is now, just let us old gits die happy thinking ridiculous things like the minimum size for a decent live bass speaker might be an 8 X 10.
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#34
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmec View Post

I am interested in modelling amps but am also worried about the future when people can just make an acceptable sounding record at a push of a button based on other people's talent, life's work, best decisions and massive investment in gear and premises.

Every step in this direction is a step away from what I love most, which is Rock and Roll excess without any of the fashionable current downsizing.
Please don't downsize my Rock and Roll anymore than it is now, just let us old gits die happy thinking ridiculous things like the minimum size for a decent live bass speaker might be an 8 X 10.
That train has already left the station. But as I said elsewhere, the music is in the skill of the hands. It's the musician who creates and plays and who makes the music. I hate to tell you that.
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#35
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
I have had the Kemper for about a week and my thoughts are mixed. Does it sound as good as an amp? Yes and no. It sounds like many amps do once you have recorded them, which is the product's intention. Right out of the box 99% of profiles sound like poo. You have to edit them heavily to your specific guitar and pickup, and editing is fairly complex with small detailed sweet spots that are completely dependent on your chain, guitar and pickup. .
Which is why the 3rd party profiles are so good...That's really what ultimately sold me. A lot of the Amp Factory profiles are really close to being plug and play.
#36
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
That train has already left the station. But as I said elsewhere, the music is in the skill of the hands. It's the musician who creates and plays and who makes the music. I hate to tell you that.
Amen and thank you. I have some of what I consider to be some beautiful and inspiring vintage and boutique tube amps. What I find is that when the music is happening I don't feel like my Kemper or amp or direct with amp sim is holding me back. In fact, once the recordings are complete and mixes are done I have never had a single instance where I or anyone else said anything about the guitar sounding like an amp sim. The song and musicianship come together or they don't. This is still based on art, no? I love my Kemper for several reasons. I also love my Marshall, Germino, tweeds, browns, AC15, etc. also love for VG8 and guitar synth's. I make music and help others to do the same so whatever gets the sound that inspires. This is not religion. I love music and sound. Part of my job involves technology but the most important part is more shaman than scientist. Or I could be completely full of shite. Yes, that is a real possibility but I still have a great time and count my blessings every single day that I am in a position to make music.

And so, the Kemper is an amazing tool we have at our disposal. It does not replace or make obsolete any of my other tools. Tube amps still sound awesome and nothing smells quite like one. Maybe someday the Kemper will incorporate olfactory elements. Ah, skanky tweed super reeking of 50+ years of bar duty. Yeah...
#37
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #37
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That's good. I still have a few amps and sold my main one. I have not plugged my guitar into a real amp in the two+ years since I got the Axe Fx. I'm a professional guitarist. I have not looked back.

Like you no one has said anything about the sound, live or on the many recordings I've done except to complement me or ask what I was using to get that killer sound.
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#38
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #38
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Well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
That train has already left the station. But as I said elsewhere, the music is in the skill of the hands. It's the musician who creates and plays and who makes the music. I hate to tell you that.
I just want to create a sonic environment that makes a musician (like myself) happier and feel more inspired while playing the music than the oppositions available sonic environments.
Can this Kemper unit do more than 1 amp sound in a single pass because I quite often break all the rules and do the clean dirty tube bass rig thing with different size drivers and all sorts of anomalies, are there any clean dirty combination bass sounds demos I can listen to. you see, I just don't understand how it works
If you often have two sounds mixed into one ambient microphone.
If I bought a Kemper this is the first rig of mine I would try to make and if possible sell a model of.

Think John Entwistles sound, The Who live at Leeds but downtuned with some added clean for better definition.
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#39
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #39
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I don't know about the Kemper, but the Axe Fx II can play two separate amps simultaneously. With a great foot controller you can control all kinds of crazy stuff. Great routing possibilities.
#40
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #40
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I need people to hate the Kemper so I can sell my amps.
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#41
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmec View Post
I just want to create a sonic environment that makes a musician (like myself) happier and feel more inspired while playing the music than the oppositions available sonic environments.
Can this Kemper unit do more than 1 amp sound in a single pass because I quite often break all the rules and do the clean dirty tube bass rig thing with different size drivers and all sorts of anomalies, are there any clean dirty combination bass sounds demos I can listen to. you see, I just don't understand how it works
If you often have two sounds mixed into one ambient microphone.
If I bought a Kemper this is the first rig of mine I would try to make and if possible sell a model of.

Think John Entwistles sound, The Who live at Leeds but downtuned with some added clean for better definition.
Get your mic balance at the board, buss it together, back into the Kemper and profile away. To my ears it's a solution to expensive amps taking up space. Some people's minds will never be changed though.
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#42
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Which is why the 3rd party profiles are so good...That's really what ultimately sold me. A lot of the Amp Factory profiles are really close to being plug and play.

Definitely seems more like it but they still have several decibels too much low end to be usable in any kind of mix with tons of crappy reverb.
#43
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
  #43
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You are aware there is a bass knob, right?
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#44
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
You are aware there is a bass knob, right?
Haha, of course. I start by twisting the bass knob (usually down quite a bit) along with adjusting the clean/distortion sense/gain and by turning off all the effects. Then I try several different guitars and pickups to see if the patch is in the ballpark. If its not I delete right away. If it is I start tweaking other parameters to find the magic.
#45
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skythemusic View Post
I have had the Kemper for about a week and my thoughts are mixed. Does it sound as good as an amp? Yes and no. It sounds like many amps do once you have recorded them, which is the product's intention. Right out of the box 99% of profiles sound like poo. You have to edit them heavily to your specific guitar and pickup, and editing is fairly complex with small detailed sweet spots that are completely dependent on your chain, guitar and pickup. 75% of profiles are still useless but there are still MANY that have very interesting and useful tone, especially the moderately overdriven sounds.

My biggest issue is that the vast majority of the profiles don't work very well with pedals on the front end, and the extremely clean profiles are mostly dull. So far the best results I have had is with wah and distortion pedals prior to the AD and timing and modulation pedals post DA, then into a UTC transformer DI and into my Retro Powerstrip. I am still working out the best chain for the sounds I am looking for. I think it will be very useful in a dense mix and for offbeat music like shoegaze (which always used DI stuff), certain country music, etc. To me it won't replace my amps but then again I haven't tried profiling them yet. Many times amps sound great in the room but getting that sound through the CR monitors is another story. I have owned or tried nearly every amp sim and di solution since the late 80's and this is the best idea I have heard yet.
Have you tried profiling an amp or sound that you do like yet? (and if so how long did you refine the profile for? I find it takes longer than is shown in the videos to get a close match).
#46
20th December 2012
Old 20th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Have you tried profiling an amp or sound that you do like yet? (and if so how long did you refine the profile for? I find it takes longer than is shown in the videos to get a close match).
Not yet, but I just brought my 64' Vibro Champ and 65' Vox Cambridge to the tech to do just that. I also finally put a mastery bridge on my jazzmaster along with the antiquity 2 pickups. The Kemper has really inspired me to get some of my gear together and I am looking forward to trying my hand at profiling soon. I just used it for tracking last night and it was awesome, tone I have never had before as I am using amps that I would never think to own as well as approaching tracking differently. It's not really like normal DI. You just have to have patience to really dial it in. I'm sure I'll get faster at it over time.
#47
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I don't know about the Kemper, but the Axe Fx II can play two separate amps simultaneously. With a great foot controller you can control all kinds of crazy stuff. Great routing possibilities.
It can't run 2 profiles at once like the AXE. I'm not convinced it's meant to behave that way.

Think of it less as a multi effects unit (POD/11r/AXE FX) and more of a head in this regard.

It can be used as a multi effects unit, but personally I feel the effects are lacking a little something I get from my pedals and the AXE II excels at effects where the kemper doesn't.

Remember, it profiles everything in the chain. Everything that colors the sound is included in the profile from the cables, amp, speaker, mic, preamp, mixer ect.

I enjoy using one profile to record and then re-amping a few times and mixing the different signals together for a (usually) huge result!
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#48
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Are you having a laugh? If you hear it, you will be a believer...
Borrowed one. Liked it, will buy one but it doesn't sound exactly the same. Same sort of difference as the UAD plate to a real one. Totally usable though.
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#49
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosgow View Post
It can't run 2 profiles at once like the AXE. I'm not convinced it's meant to behave that way.

Think of it less as a multi effects unit (POD/11r/AXE FX) and more of a head in this regard.

It can be used as a multi effects unit, but personally I feel the effects are lacking a little something I get from my pedals and the AXE II excels at effects where the kemper doesn't.

Remember, it profiles everything in the chain. Everything that colors the sound is included in the profile from the cables, amp, speaker, mic, preamp, mixer ect.

I enjoy using one profile to record and then re-amping a few times and mixing the different signals together for a (usually) huge result!
Well wait - I don't think of the AXE as a multi effects unit like a POD!!!! WTF??

The AMPs in the Axe are great all by themselves. If you have't heard the Axe since say version 8 then you haven't heard it.
#50
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #50
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I played with a version 9 I think a few weeks ago. I'm not saying the AXE II is only as good as a POD, I'm saying that in this scenario, they fill the same role (albeit one is far better than the other).

Not bashing the AXE in any way. It is wonderful to play through and record with and I 100% include the amp sounds in that.

I'm just trying to point out that they're completely different beasts
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#51
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #51
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Yes, OK. I don't know exactly how they are completely different beasts. They both do amp emulations that are very realistic. The Axe has it's own tone matching technology which is similar to profiling. The Axe has a lot more variables and control. But both can emulate amps to a ridiculous degree.
#52
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Yes, OK. I don't know exactly how they are completely different beasts. They both do amp emulations that are very realistic. The Axe has it's own tone matching technology which is similar to profiling. The Axe has a lot more variables and control. But both can emulate amps to a ridiculous degree.
What styles are you doing with the Axe? It's always unfortunate because most demo's on youtube are with heavy gain styles.
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#53
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #53
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I'm a jazz musician, so my styles run the gamut from straight ahead jazz tone, Metheny-Scofield-sih to fusion to rock to pop.

I never listen to youtube tones. Never, ever ever. It's pretty limiting I know, but I don't know how you can really tell on youtube.
#54
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #54
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Unfortunately, how it sounds on YouTube matters (or MP3, etc) since that's where many recordings will be heard. It's a crude way to demo tone, I agree, but it's also good to know how well these products break down under data compression.
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#55
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #55
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Well that's cool, but honestly I've never heard it on YouTube so I don't know one way or the other. I just haven't listened to it that way. There are so many different ways to record it. A low cost mic in wtf daw or from the camera mic or direct. I mean you just don't know.
#56
23rd December 2012
Old 23rd December 2012
  #56
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i was always buying and selling amps... swart, 65 amps, badcat, zinky, + all the usual supsects

i think the kemper is single best tool for the recording guitarist to date

i didn't love mine at first though... the stock profiles aren't where it's at
#57
23rd December 2012
Old 23rd December 2012
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersully View Post
i was always buying and selling amps... swart, 65 amps, badcat, zinky, + all the usual supsects

i think the kemper is single best tool for the recording guitarist to date

i didn't love mine at first though... the stock profiles aren't where it's at
You should write Kemper and let them know that they have some work to do. Most people will judge this product based purely upon the stock profiles. If 3rd party profiles raise it to the next level it shouldn't be so difficult for them to incorporate better profiles of their own.
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#58
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #58
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I have been doing guitar based records for almost 40 years and I have worked with a ton of excellent guitar players (Zakk, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Nuno, Vito Bratta, Wolf Hoffmann, Mick Mars, James Hetfield, Kane Roberts, Scottie and Snake from Skid Row, Chris Impelliteri, Dimebag, Ty Tabor etc.) and just as many great amps. The Kemper is a game changer and is hands down THE best piece of gear that walked though my studio door in the last 20 years.

I am a stickler for guitar tone and I don't take guitar tone lightly. I've tried all the simulators more than once with a bunch of different players and I didn't like ANY of them (still don't). They don't do your right hand justice, so they make you play different. The Kemper is different, it is not a simulator it is a profiler, to me that makes a big difference.

I have about 50 different guitar amps, guitar pre-amps, and lots of cabinets, microphones and mic pres. They all sound great for something, all great in their own way. Rarely do I just use one single amp/cab/mic, most of the time I use combinations.

I re-amped a DI guitar track through my Splawn together with a Bogner module, via two 4x12 cabs with 3 different speakers and 4 different mics via the Chandler TG-2 mic pre and the Trident A-range mic pre, mixed together to one track by the CraneSong Spider, and the sound was killer. Recorded the live amp track into Nuendo, I then profiled that exact setup, straight out of the Spider and re-amped the same DI track through the Kemper profile of that setup and punched it in and out of the original amp track: I could not hear a difference, I could not tell where the amp track ended and the Kemper track started and vice versa. That is close enough for me. If I can not tell a difference with the track in solo, nobody will be able to hear a difference when I'm done with the mix!

The secret is in getting a great profile and there are a bunch of things to be paid attention to, like the actual return level, the level going into the Kemper, refining the profile the correct way etc. If done right, I can not tell the profile from the original, if NOT done right, there will be a noticeable difference.

Am I going to sell all my amps? Of course not, there are a million combinations that sound good and are special to a particular track or song. Will I profile that combination used on that particular track? Yes, of course. Do I like other peoples profiles, yes, some of them are very good and are very inspiring, some others don't fit my style, so I won't use them.

I love being able to give the guys the exact sound they got in the studio on their album to take on the road.

I think the Kemper KPA is an amazing piece of gear and it does make my job easier.

my 2 cents - now back to making music...
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#59
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #59
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I can't wait to get mine!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
#60
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
I love being able to give the guys the exact sound they got in the studio on their album to take on the road.
now THAT's a great feature.
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