Guitar Intonation

[kafka]

Get Dan Erlewine's book:

How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great - Second Edition: Dan Erlewine: 9780879309985: Amazon.com: Books

[Schattenmann]

Intonation has always given me a headache - and suffering from migraines, I already have more than enough reasons to get headaches.
Actually, main issues I have here (Japan, before that Taiwan, China, HK) has always been due to weather conditions: humidity, very hot summers, sometimes fairly cold winters spent in badly insulated homes. Guitars' necks suffer.
Keeping a guitar right in pitch all year long? I never was able to, so I just take it easy*

Back to your topic, it might also be due to the guitar's scale. I prefer Gibson scale guitars. Yours is a Strat, longer scale, tuning it slightly sharp surely adds a little more pressure and that's probably what you hear.
What about tuning it flat?

*PS: I think I remember that guitars can't really achieve a "perfect" pitch anyway (except fretless, maybe).
I remember some weird looking guitar that was supposed to correct this pitch issue. The fretboard was really funny looking: frets weren't straigth, it made like waves on the fretboard.
Can't remember the name of the manufacturer or guitar.
Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

[jinksdingo]

Generally I make sure the saddle height and relief in the neck is right so the strings are as low as I can get them without fret buz. Forget it on worn out frets but a fret dress can help keep it going.

On intonation go for getting open string, the 12th fret and harmonic 12th fret all the same pitch. The neck is not quite straight and if too straight this can effect the intonation and cause some saddles to be pulled way back = highly strung especially so if the neck relief is dead straight.

Next is different gauge strings have an effect on tunning so you really should check and adjust intonation after every string change but not after they have just settled in as all the adjusting lessens the life of your new strings.
Do so, round the time you first think you need a string change; you keep on top of seasonal effects as well. Not counted if you keep strings on for more than a season. Rusty tone.
The other extreme is the string changes between live sets. use same brand and gauge.
Then, re read this post. Check your action etc.

[Tele Vision]

Originally Posted by Schattenmann

I remember some weird looking guitar that was supposed to correct this pitch issue. The fretboard was really funny looking: frets weren't straigth, it made like waves on the fretboard.
Can't remember the name of the manufacturer or guitar.
Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

Dingwall makes basses with fanned frets; probably others do, too.

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by Schattenmann

Back to your topic, it might also be due to the guitar's scale. I prefer Gibson scale guitars. Yours is a Strat, longer scale, tuning it slightly sharp surely adds a little more pressure and that's probably what you hear.
What about tuning it flat?

That's an interesting point. As for tuning it flat, well - I didn't like it, I'll put it that way, but it would make sense that scale length could be a factor. If I ever get my Jazzmaster, I'll have to try it and see!

Massive sympathy for the east Asian humidity, my girlfreind was in Tokyo, Japan for the summer 2011 (after the Tsunamai!) and she could only describe it as like trying to breathe in a warm, sticky blanket.

For the other posts my action isn't particularly low at all and I use 11's. My main reason isn't a tone thing, but I find low action, low gauge setups to make the neck feel very small. Basicaly I like it when my guitar fights me, I just don't like it when it wins!

[Karloff70]

Get a Peterson tuner.

[Schattenmann]

Originally Posted by Tele Vision

Dingwall makes basses with fanned frets; probably others do, too.

Interesting, but sadly not what I referred to.
It's really upsetting not being able to remember the name
Frets weren't straight, actually they didn't even look like "normal" frets.
Try to picture this: you cut your fret in smaller pieces and they have a slightly off position. Made the fretboard look...how could I say...jiggly.
Really hard to describe, sorry :(

EDIT: I think this system is called "staggered fret". Still, can't remember the name of the manufacturer/guitar I once saw...

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

So recently my freind broke a string on my guitar. No big deal, right?

Wrong, he in his innoncence thought you take the string off a strat by loosening the saddle. I couldn't be mad, one misfortunate had simply led to another, he was trying to make up breaking the string and it backfired.

But the guitars intonation was totaly out. So that weekend I sat down with a new set of strings, my ears and a chromatic tuner. I went from string to string and recheked and after about 15 minutes I had it close..but it could be better!

What I found was that if the intonation was slightly sharp according to the tuner, say a few cents, that it sounded better to me. Large upper neck voicings with open notes that previously weren't so hot, were great, and the difference moving between strings was less jarring.

Anyone have any critiques, criticisms or wisdom to impart? I'm curious to see what others are doing!

when you're saying the intonation is slightly sharp, do you mean the harmonic is sharp to the fretted note? You're saying chords are ringing out now, do they come up in tune on the tuner? And what happens when you play above the 12th fret? On my strat and Tele I have an Earvana nut. that has absolutely made both guitars play pretty in tune, you really notice it in 1st Position. You should intonate your guitar with a whole set of brand new strings old strings don't intonate properly as has been said. Also you will need to check where the neck is at as the seasons change, usually in the summer the guitar will come up sharp, in the winter flat, and if you look at you neck during those times you'll see your neck almost bow out in the summer and have more relief in the winter.

[T1M0N]

Originally Posted by Schattenmann

I remember some weird looking guitar that was supposed to correct this pitch issue. The fretboard was really funny looking: frets weren't straigth, it made like waves on the fretboard.
Can't remember the name of the manufacturer or guitar.
Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

I think I remember some Ibanez Steve Vai models had those frets, they were called true temperament i believe. Also there are the fanned fret models, for example by Novax.

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

when you're saying the intonation is slightly sharp, do you mean the harmonic is sharp to the fretted note? You're saying chords are ringing out now, do they come up in tune on the tuner? And what happens when you play above the 12th fret? On my strat and Tele I have an Earvana nut. that has absolutely made both guitars play pretty in tune, you really notice it in 1st Position. You should intonate your guitar with a whole set of brand new strings old strings don't intonate properly as has been said. Also you will need to check where the neck is at as the seasons change, usually in the summer the guitar will come up sharp, in the winter flat, and if you look at you neck during those times you'll see your neck almost bow out in the summer and have more relief in the winter.

What I'm saying is that compared to the 12th harmonic, the 12th fret is maybe 1 or 2 cents sharp and that I find it sounds better that way than when it's the same exact pitch for both.

Above the 12th is fine, it's not my main playing area but I was recently learning Pearl Jam's Alive for a student I have and the solo sounded fine!

I changed my strings before intonating, I'm all too aware of the intonation problems of old strings! On the Emerald Isle we have a temperature variation of, at most, 10 degrees and generaly the amount of rain is the same so I don't find I do much seasonal adjustment.

[jacktadoussac]

Obviously if you use the tremolo bar regularly, and you love it, there's no need to try this.


I'm coming at the Strat from a Telecaster player's viewpoint. So I asked myself what about wedging the tremolo with some hardwood. The fellow at USA Custom Guitar order desk suggested cutting off an old drum stick and jamming it in there. All my drum sticks are pristine so I used my Swedish carpenter's axe and cut off a chunk of walnut lumber I just happened to have.

The result is my Strat is nearly as loud acoustically as my Tele. The guitar is so darn hot I've had to lower the pick-ups to be flush with the body. There's an acoustic heart in my Strat. In a way it's almost a flavour of acoustic guitar. To me, at least, it is a better acoustic guitar than most of the ones I've heard.

[Karloff70]

Like your style! ^^^^

[jacktadoussac]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Like your style! ^^^^

When you got a Swedish carpenter's axe it's a sign you mean business. But I'm very careful with that thing. Once you have a few axes of different shapes and sizes, I feel no great urge to buy a chain saw. We have a proper router but it never gets used thanks to my collection of axes.

[Karloff70]

Det var som fan!

[jacktadoussac]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Det var som fan!

Yah!

Definitely!

Did you mean: That is some fun?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by jacktadoussac

Yah!

Definitely!

Did you mean: That is some fun?

Nope, thought you might speak swedish....lol. Kind of just means "fukkin hell!"

[Schattenmann]

Originally Posted by T1M0N

I think I remember some Ibanez Steve Vai models had those frets, they were called true temperament i believe. Also there are the fanned fret models, for example by Novax.

That's correct, it's supposed to be for "true temperament" tuning.I came across a link once, through the comment section of an article on Guitar World. Sadly, last time I checked, it wasn't possible to access said article anymore.
It was the (in)famous "Yngwie Malmsteen Critiques the Playing of His Peers" article. Seems GW got tired of the sh*tstorm it generated in the comments section

Edit: I would kick myself if I could. How obvious it was
True Temperament - Fretting systems

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Schattenmann

Interesting, but sadly not what I referred to.
It's really upsetting not being able to remember the name
Frets weren't straight, actually they didn't even look like "normal" frets.
Try to picture this: you cut your fret in smaller pieces and they have a slightly off position. Made the fretboard look...how could I say...jiggly.
Really hard to describe, sorry :(

EDIT: I think this system is called "staggered fret". Still, can't remember the name of the manufacturer/guitar I once saw...

like this

Bending the strings would have to be a real pain in the a$$

I just get as close as I can, I figure that's good enough for rock 'n roll

[smili]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

I find low action, low gauge setups to make the neck feel very small. Basicaly I like it when my guitar fights me, I just don't like it when it wins!

There's something to this. To my ears, higher action just seems to give a guitar more life. When I was growing up I wanted as low action as possible because that's what all the best players talked about (I grew up in hair band 80s). I even played 008 and 009 gauge strings. Now I play 10s and 11s and prefer higher action.

I've heard SRV liked even heavier strings but I tried 12s and that was too much for my poor fingers, so back to 10s or 11s I went.

But it is nice if the guitar fights back a bit. It's like you get more feedback to what's happening.

[Tonycamp]

even the best guitars are not perfectly in tune, the most important thing after getting the intonation as close to perfect as possible, is tuning the instrument to itself, and that is all ears

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

l

Bending the strings would have to be a real pain in the a$$

That makes me feel drunk just looking at it!

Originally Posted by smili

There's something to this. To my ears, higher action just seems to give a guitar more life.

But it is nice if the guitar fights back a bit. It's like you get more feedback to what's happening.

I'd agree! For some stuff, like tapping, I find my action is probably abit too high. But I can really dig into chords and when I overbend a note, I dunno, I sorta feel it. The stress on my fingers adds some emotional attachment to it, I dunno. You're definitely right on the whole feedback thing, it feels less like "I'm playing this on you" and more "We are doing this together". It's work for everybody!

I wont be wedging my tremolo as, well, I like it. But it's not a bad idea. I've sometimes wanted a fixed bridge, but I'd need a floating bridge guitar too. When you grow up listening to Sonic Youth and The Butthole Surfers, you just can't let go of the idea of having one!

[Schattenmann]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

I wont be wedging my tremolo as, well, I like it. But it's not a bad idea. I've sometimes wanted a fixed bridge, but I'd need a floating bridge guitar too. When you grow up listening to Sonic Youth and The Butthole Surfers, you just can't let go of the idea of having one!

What about a Wilkinson "locking" trem?

Also, has anyone tried the Buzz Feiten system?
http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/howitworks.htm

[FFTT]

The slight delay in signal when using a needle type sampling tuner, can make
it very difficult to nail down proper intonation.

I strongly recommend Peterson Strobo-Soft Deluxe software.

[DaveBCC]

Buzz Feiten. I'm just sayin....

[fastlanestoner]

I will totally second the teachings of Dan Erlewine, a master of the craft!

In my experience good intonation is a mixture of good measurements and feel/sound. I've never met a G string that didn't need to be tuned a *little flat, even when totally intonated.

Just do what sounds/feels right, you'll get there!

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Schattenmann

Interesting, but sadly not what I referred to.
It's really upsetting not being able to remember the name
Frets weren't straight, actually they didn't even look like "normal" frets.
Try to picture this: you cut your fret in smaller pieces and they have a slightly off position. Made the fretboard look...how could I say...jiggly.
Really hard to describe, sorry :(

EDIT: I think this system is called "staggered fret". Still, can't remember the name of the manufacturer/guitar I once saw...

"Spaghetti frets"...... True Temperament - Fretting systems

[aTelecine-Lex]

Originally Posted by jacktadoussac

When you got a Swedish carpenter's axe it's a sign you mean business.

Now that quote is signature worthy...

Cheers,
Alexa

[jacktadoussac]

Originally Posted by aTelecine-Lex

Now that quote is signature worthy...

Cheers,
Alexa

These lines are par for the course. The most important is to double down on the action and keep the words roughly where they are -- trimming the excess with a Swedish carpenter's axe.

[FFTT]

I learned about using Peterson Strobo-Soft from professional guitar tech, Greg Howard.

Working with Peterson Strobo Soft on my MacBook Pro, I can tune and adjust intonation with fine precision. If the intonation is off, you can see the scope jumping and you can fine adjust down to 1 cent.
The software also supports alternate tunings and sweetened tunings.

Bang for buck this is the best there is when it comes to fine intonation adjustments.