Some of the other topics in the new So Many Guitars forum have made me think about my path the last couple of years (of my decades of guitar playing).
As a sometimes slide player, I've always been somewhat comfortable with open chord tunings of various sorts, major, minor, 6th -- but DADGAD threw me, since, you know, it's not really a usable chord, for the most part, and familiar approaches to chords are somewhat thrown off... it's not a jazzer's tuning, to the contrary, it invites open string use and works best in a relatively small handful of keys.
Yet, in terms of expanding my mind -- and my understanding of what I'm doing when I'm doing it, it's been really a rewarding experience. The reduced string/note complexity makes it a bit easier to keep track -- and I made a conscious decision when harmonizing differnt keys to think in terms of the harmonic value more than the letter names. (ie, I've tried to think more in terms of 1, 4, 6, and 6m than, say, D, G, A, and Bm.)
On the spur of the moment, I started a Facebook page devoted to DADGAD and welcome anyone interested in the tuning -- whether experienced or just curious -- to pile on in and participate... https://www.facebook.com/DadgadOMania
I love the sound but I'm too lazy to learn the chords. I play a lot of other stuff in G, D or E Vestapol, C, dropped D.... Some of the nicest stuff is in DADGAD though.
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I love the sound but I'm too lazy to learn the chords. I play a lot of other stuff in G, D or E Vestapol, C, dropped D.... Some of the nicest stuff is in DADGAD though.
I know the feeling. Some of my favorite players use DADGAD, some of them pretty often, and I'd always just sort of scratched my head when I'd tweak an open G to DADGAD just to see if it still didn't make any sense to me.
But then, one day, watching Rory Gallagher explain some blues connections to a BBC interviewer after picking up a guitar that happened to be in DADGAD, I thought, man, I'm going to sit down and try to make sense of this thing.
I happened to 'luck out' on the first couple fingerings I tried and then quickly realized that the tuning actually has more in common with standard and drop D than the open chord tunings.
While looking for a good 'intro' vid to put on the FB page, I stumbled on this very low key, clearly off-the-top-of-his-head little bit by fret-meister Phil Hare... (I particularly like the part where smokes a cigarette and stares into the camera for ten or twenty seconds.) Super offhand presentation notwithstanding, I think he gets across some of the charms of the tuning.
I don't have any problem playing in any tuning, I find them all inspiring and lead me to create melodies etc. But when someone comes along and says, "Okay, let's learn "Haystack Sleighride" in DADGAD, it would be nice to be able to use the music that you know... chords, etc. Things would move along a bit quicker.
It was hearing his version of As The Crow Flies that got me into acoustic, alternate tunings and slide stuff. Then lots of Davy Graham, Renbourn, Kottke etc...
But I also never got my head round DADGAD! I use Drop D, Double drop D, Open G, D, E (sometimes as minors) but whenever I tried DADGAD I just couldn't make it work.
I saw Pierre Bensusan a few years ago and (iirc) he plays almost exclusively in DADGAD; he was great.
Anyway,maybe I'll have another crack at it and see what happens!
It was hearing his version of As The Crow Flies that got me into acoustic, alternate tunings and slide stuff. Then lots of Davy Graham, Renbourn, Kottke etc...
But I also never got my head round DADGAD! I use Drop D, Double drop D, Open G, D, E (sometimes as minors) but whenever I tried DADGAD I just couldn't make it work.
I saw Pierre Bensusan a few years ago and (iirc) he plays almost exclusively in DADGAD; he was great.
Anyway,maybe I'll have another crack at it and see what happens!
Once it clicks, it sort of makes sense. It's not for everything, of course. But, on the upside, it's really easy to go back and forth, as these things go.
I keep coming back to some of the things that Phil Hare said, that it really comes alive when you stop thinking in terms of block chords and start thinking about flowing from one chord into the next. A lot of us do that with our finger and flat picking, of course, but there's a peculiar charm to having the open strings so available.
One thing that kind of helped it click for me is that the 3-5 strings are all the same as standard, and then, you know, the 6 is the same as drop-D, and the 1 and 2, well, you get used to them after a bit.
PS... Yeah, Bensusan seems to do a lot of DADGAD. He's a fine guitarist, though I'd prefer straight acoustic guitar, but, you know, the music comes through.
Honestly, while the sound of DADGAD is pretty deep in me from listening to celtic folk since the 60s, since I picked up DADGAD a couple years ago, I've actually mostly been holding off watching a bunch of people playing in the tuning (on YT or elsewhere) because I sort of wanted to let my own approach to the tuning evolve. It's fun exploring. But now I'm ready to sort of see what dumb stuff I missed and start paying attention to what others do.
PPS... I normally don't go for that hero worship stuff. Rory Gallagher is the exception. I saw him seven times. On some level (sadly not as obvious as I might like), he's a huge influence on me, at least in attitude and love for the music. I really loved that guy.
i used to play acoustic 12 a lot back in the 70's -80's and would always be making up tunings as well as on electric. now whether or not some of them jived with usual traditional ones, i don't know
I randomly started experimenting with it after watching It Might Get Loud and heating Jimmy talk about it.
I'm enjoying it for writing, it automatically put me in a different mindset.
I like to shake things up in my head.
I've always found that learning some new musical thing in one place (like even on keyboard) seems to change and inform what I do in other places (like on guitar which is my primary love).
Sometimes it's fun to just put things in a tuning that make it easy to play right off. But sometimes, as with DADGAD, you have to put in some work, first. Previously, I'd put my guitar in DADGAD once a decade or so and say to myself, nope, still no open chords.
But it wasn't like I was afraid of headwork on the guitar, so, spurred by the late Mr Gallagher's casual use of the tuning in the BBC interview linked above I put in the couple of minutes of work to figure out the primary chords in D and then just sort of drifted off into a couple hours of noodling.
I'm a big fan of DADGAD, especially for heavier stuff :] One band I play in I use it almost exclusively . . the other main tuning being DGDF#BD!?
Here's a bit of DADGADOMANIA from that band that some naughty fan uploaded :
Right!
DADGAD (and other alt tunigs) are certainly not just for folkies and old hippies. (Although, clearly, from the Phil Hare stuff -- I've now seen a few of his charmingly rambling vids with their seemingly off-the-cuff mashes of trad folk with mainstream pop tunes done celto-folkie style -- it's rich turf for the grow your own set. )
They manage to get a nicely evocative sound in the intro and, after they go heavy, a properly ominous sound in the big part.
I use DADGAD a lot, it's a beautiful tuning. You might find it fun to use the suspended second version of it also, DADEAD. It's also a haunting and beautiful tuning, and easy to make chords on, since you can fret the third and the flatted third of a minor chord relatively easily.
I use a lot of different tunings, they help me a lot. When I play in standard tuning, I tend to repeat the same chords and ideas over and over, and not challenge myself. Playing in a different tuning can make me discover new ways to be creative, since I have to.
Open C is by far my favorite, I actually bought a Gibson Melody Maker so that I can have an electric to dedicate to that tuning alone. You tend to need a capo, but that's no big deal. It's, bass to treble, CGCGCE. So, you have a power chord on the bass three strings and a major on the treble.
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Some of my favorites: Ed Gerhard, Lawrence Juber, Mike Huttlinger, etc use DADGAD a lot.
As I think I noted, I made sort of a conscious decision not to put myself in a position early on (in my now 2 year infatuation with the tuning) to be too influenced by others' styles -- but now I'm ready to start observing and absorbing, so I'm definitely going to check those guys out!
i used to play acoustic 12 a lot back in the 70's -80's and would always be making up tunings as well as on electric. now whether or not some of them jived with usual traditional ones, i don't know
When I was first playing I used to 'make up' tunings a lot. It was huge fun but, this was before affordable tuners, I almost never had much of a clue what I was doing -- and often as not, how to get back to where I'd been.
But I was fascinated by slide and also got into using open G (I tried open D -- but my first guitar [an $18 'classical' with a blocky neck not far off from a square-neck Dobro and so wide my slide could barely reach the 6th string) and eventually drifted out of my random creative tuning phase. Kind of sadly.
It's never too late to go back and see what you find now after a few decades of other growth and exploration. Sometimes you see the old place with new eyes. Er, not to mix metaphors.
Cool idea for a Facebook page! I look forward to seeing it grow.
I've been using DADGAD in writing and performing for over 20 years. I still have a copy of Pierre Bensusan's handwritten tab book from when it came out. I like a lot of tunings, but the only ones I use in stage shows are standard, drop-D, and DADGAD (ok, sometimes double-drop-d on the way down). Using a capo and alternating between songs out of D position and songs in A position, I can stay in DADGAD for a bunch of songs in the middle of the set and not have it get monotonous. I also like to teach stuff in DADGAD, and have used it in books and videos.
Yeah, you can lose what you did. I was in the habit of when I wrote something in an alt tuning I'd write it down and diagrams for whatever chords I came up with in a notebook.
I never did anything micro tonal, or 'out of tune' tunings like I've heard someone like Arto Lindsay do
[QUOTE=Larry Mal;8090199... When I play in standard tuning, I tend to repeat the same chords and ideas over and over, and not challenge myself. ....[/QUOTE]
When I find myself stuck like that I start to write complete songs in my head without touching a guitar, and force myself to learn the song on guitar that I hear in my head, as if I was learning someone else's tune.
I use DADGAD a lot, it's a beautiful tuning. You might find it fun to use the suspended second version of it also, DADEAD. It's also a haunting and beautiful tuning, and easy to make chords on, since you can fret the third and the flatted third of a minor chord relatively easily.
I use a lot of different tunings, they help me a lot. When I play in standard tuning, I tend to repeat the same chords and ideas over and over, and not challenge myself. Playing in a different tuning can make me discover new ways to be creative, since I have to.
Open C is by far my favorite, I actually bought a Gibson Melody Maker so that I can have an electric to dedicate to that tuning alone. You tend to need a capo, but that's no big deal. It's, bass to treble, CGCGCE. So, you have a power chord on the bass three strings and a major on the treble.
I'm going to try those tunings out!
I recently put my Ovation Celeb (shallowback) which I normally use for slide into one of the common Dobro tunings -- or a downtuned variation, actually, (from bass up) E, G#, B, E, G#, B, and that's been really interesting.
Yeah, you can lose what you did. I was in the habit of when I wrote something in an alt tuning I'd write it down and diagrams for whatever chords I came up with in a notebook.
I never did anything micro tonal, or 'out of tune' tunings like I've heard someone like Arto Lindsay do
My new habit, due to scatter-brainedness, is using the video camera in my phone as sketchpad anytime something interesting pops up that I know I'm not going to remember two hours later.
the thing I like about different tunings, some people touched on it, is that it makes you hear chords you wouldn't normally play. THat is what is interesting about these tunings, that you can indeed play 'block chords' with a result that will definitely be something different.
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My new habit, due to scatter-brainedness, is using the video camera in my phone as sketchpad anytime something interesting pops up that I know I'm not going to remember two hours later.
Oh, yeah, my video cam (my phone video image is fine but the audio is underwater ) has been invaluable. Every once in a while I've come up with something I've been afraid I wouldn't readily stumble back on to and so run it into video.
BTW, since you mention it, I find that my own, Gatling gun style thought processes are, from time to time, hard to manage. I'll come up with 5 great new ideas and start 3 or 4 projects in one bright summer morning and then, I dunno, some shiny object flies past and I'm on to something else.
For that reason, when I'm on my game, I make heavy use of outlines, lists, and notebooks. Not just for music but for everyday life and especially my day job, which often involves a complex and rapidly moving weave of different process threads. I find a good outliner (I've gone back to using the 'salvaged' ababandon-ware originally called Ecco Pro, which was originally designed for Windows 3.x!) really helps me. My main problem is then starting so many sub branches that I lose track of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle
the thing I like about different tunings, some people touched on it, is that it makes you hear chords you wouldn't normally play. THat is what is interesting about these tunings, that you can indeed play 'block chords' with a result that will definitely be something different.
Absolutely.
And, actually, like a fair number of people, early on I let my innate laziness carry me into exploring standard tuning chords with lots of open strings, which I still use a lot of. There's something 'sturdy and reliable' about good ol', chunky first position standard tuning chords -- but I've always enjoyed a little harmonic complexity. Sometimes I've had to search it out, but many's the time I've stumbled on a happy harmonic accident.
Great thread, I had a Django moment at work and burnt my hands so I find open tunings easier to play.
It's worth checking out 'Masters of War' by Martin Simpson (The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan: A Folk Tribute)...it's on Spotify.
I usually tinker with the tunings around DADGAD.
Currently learning Barton Hollow by the Civil Wars:
Phil Hare is spot on when he talks about the different flow and new opportunities for progression. It's almost a different instrument.
Simpson's a fine player, without a doubt. I only got onto him from his Leaves of Life album, which was really pristine, but I recently discovered his good ol' folkie, singing side -- and I have to say, I really enjoy it.
Sorry to hear about your hands. Is that going to be an ongoing thing? If so, that's a drag -- but music will find a way, as I figure you know. It sure didn't stop Django. And one of the better blues lead and comp players I used to see around the SoCal area (apologies for forgetting his name, I'll try and get back with it) was missing his 'picking' arm from just below the elbow and played quite well, plucking chords and nicely soulful, sometimes stinging leads. If you've got music in your soul -- and you let it -- it will find a way out.
I went through a few months after I sold my old house (and project studio) where the only guitar I could play was slide with a plectrum because I could neither fret nor fingerpick -- I'd had my hands in so many 'safe' cleaning products (yes I used gloves but the stuff always seemed to get in the gloves and it just made it that much worse) that the skin was raw and literally cracking apart, on the backs but also on the palms and front of the fingers. It was about 3 months before I could start fretting again. And that had to be classical. You take this stuff for granted... until you can't.
But, you know, music is like wildflowers... given a little rain and a little sun, they'll poke out through the hardest dirt or even up through cracks in the concrete.
Like that very good, armless busker guy (more memory-sieve apologies due) who plays a modified tapping style with his feet. Really an inspiration. And you can close your eyes and enjoy his music completely apart from his compelling backstory. Ultimately, it's not even so much about survival and transcendence -- profound as those messages are -- as it is about the music.
Davey Graham was the stone in a lot of people's ponds.
I knew about him but it's only in the last 5 years or so that I've really understood his place in the 60s folk revival.
[PS... I wonder how that fellow in the audience holding the big dread felt if he was supposed to go on next? ]
That static photo in your post is from a strange little live filmed version of "Cry Me a River" -- and the whole thing REALLY kills me. One of my favorite internet video discoveries ever. Warning: it's in standard tuning.
Although I love to play with all kinds of different tunings, I have one acoustic always in DADGAD sitting right here next to me. I usually try to take songs you wouldn't normally hear in open tunings, and explore the possibilities. Some songs I've written have been inspired by DADGAD tuning, and in one song even have a second acoustic in DADGAD/nashville tuning adding a very beautiful layer of sweetness, to my ears of course
I also have an electric I set up for slide only, modifying the nut so the strings are off the fretboard by a least 1/4", and this is set up in DADGAD tuning.
Great topic, thanks for starting this thread! I'm looking at that acoustic...
Now off to play...maybe some "Little Martha" (tune the G down to F#)
p.s. Actually, lately that acoustic has been kept in DADF#AD tuning
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...But, you know, music is like wildflowers... given a little rain and a little sun, they'll poke out through the hardest dirt or even up through cracks in the concrete.
thanks theblue - much appreciated. The hand problem is permanent, industrial chemicals (toolmaker) also I scalded my hands at work (chef) and then got recurrent skin problems and infections...nearly lost both hands. It's OK now, under control....have small home studio. I make no commitments and play as and when and I can. Count my blessings, lol.
I got into open tunings after hearing Blood On The Tracks (especially Meet Me In The Morning and Buckets of Rain....Simple Twist Of Fate bit me later!) It was one of those pivotal moments that inspired me. I normally stick with the F# rather than the G...but for some songs e.g. Kashmir, the G really helps the harmonics.
One thing I've noticed with drop-tunings is that they've allowed me to develop as a singer and songwriter; also I feel more connected to ancient and 'ethnic' music.
Although I love to play with all kinds of different tunings, I have one acoustic always in DADGAD sitting right here next to me. I usually try to take songs you wouldn't normally hear in open tunings, and explore the possibilities. Some songs I've written have been inspired by DADGAD tuning, and in one song even have a second acoustic in DADGAD/nashville tuning adding a very beautiful layer of sweetness, to my ears of course
I also have an electric I set up for slide only, modifying the nut so the strings are off the fretboard by a least 1/4", and this is set up in DADGAD tuning.
Great topic, thanks for starting this thread! I'm looking at that acoustic...
Now off to play...maybe some "Little Martha" (tune the G down to F#)
p.s. Actually, lately that acoustic has been kept in DADF#AD tuning
Open D?!? You traitor you! I'm getting a special slide made so I can use it in DADGAD.
Funny you should mention Nashville because I was JUST thinking (as I listened to the production one of my 3DW pals did with me as 'talent' that ended up sounding pretty cool because of his arrangement and accompaniment work, which included him on Nashville (standard) tuned guitar) I absolutely have to string up my old Applause (my Europe backpacking guitar -- I ain't been backpacking through Europe much lately ) in Nashville configuration. Particularly interested in the DADGAD aspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone
thanks theblue - much appreciated. The hand problem is permanent, industrial chemicals (toolmaker) also I scalded my hands at work (chef) and then got recurrent skin problems and infections...nearly lost both hands. It's OK now, under control....have small home studio. I make no commitments and play as and when and I can. Count my blessings, lol.
I got into open tunings after hearing Blood On The Tracks (especially Meet Me In The Morning and Buckets of Rain....Simple Twist Of Fate bit me later!) It was one of those pivotal moments that inspired me. I normally stick with the F# rather than the G...but for some songs e.g. Kashmir, the G really helps the harmonics.
One thing I've noticed with drop-tunings is that they've allowed me to develop as a singer and songwriter; also I feel more connected to ancient and 'ethnic' music.
I'm tuning a spare Ovation to DAGAD now...
Solid attitude, man. I don't want to embarrass you, but I find that inspiring. I've had a little trouble in my life and sometimes you don't always get to walk the path you might have wanted. What's important is to find value and meaning in the journey you're on.
PS Gee... does everyone have a spare Ovation and/or Applause? Kind of makes sense though. And... after the end of civilization as we know it, at least the giant cockroaches will have something indestructible to play.
PPS... Aren't those pivotal moments great? Whether you call it a sudden realization, a satori, a breakthrough, or a well, duh moment, it's that light bulb thing when a bunch of things you thought were loose ends start tying themselves together.
(Moving beyond music but staying on pivotal moments/realizations: hopefully, those loose ends actually belong together. I have seen people get so twisted up in their loose ends that they start imagining it's all tied together -- when it's really just a huge tangle of unrelated things they've become convinced must be connected. Then it's time for a wee vacation and some serious downtime with someone to talk to. )
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But now I'm ready to sort of see what dumb stuff I missed 
:
) has been invaluable. Every once in a while I've come up with something I've been afraid I wouldn't readily stumble back on to and so run it into video.
