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AudioWonderland
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#1
21st March 2012
Old 21st March 2012
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Silent guitar tracking

Looking for a silent recording/ light travel rig setup that works for capturing ideas, possible tracking. I am thinking of just picking up a Radial JDX or an H&K Red Box to put between my Tweaker and a Hot Plate to provide the load.

How do you guys like the results of those cab emulators? I would likely use an old Midiverb4 to emulate a room or use a plug later to do it.
#2
21st March 2012
Old 21st March 2012
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nedorama is offline
I owned at one time the Red Box and Red Box 3 and never cared for the sound vs. a mic on the speaker.

I think you know this, but just in case, both the Radial JDX and Red Box are pass-through speaker emulator taps - they need to have a speaker/resisitive load connected on the other end or your Egnater Tweaker amp may be damaged. Not sure if the Hot plate will do it vs. a true dummy load. Weber makes several product that's designed for
this:

Attenuators

Options for quiet/silent recording:

Palmer
JAMS Audio - Nashville, TN
This is what a lot of touring guys (Rush, All Time Low, Satriani, etc.) use on tour. Power amp out into this, and it puts out a speaker-simulated output while also showing your tube amp the resistive load it needs to function properly. Nice thing is then it's 1 rack space for both load and speaker emulation. Con is that they're a bit pricey, but show up from time to time on fleabay.

Attenuator - these work to reduce the output of your amp to the speakers, so that while not quiet, it's a lot better.
Dr. Z - air Brake, Brake Lite
Rivera Rock Crusher
Weber - attenuator
I'm sure there are others.
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#3
22nd March 2012
Old 22nd March 2012
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drbob1 is offline
I've used the Redbox for a send to the board when I didn't have a mic and it worked fine. Not as flexible as the ADA Cab simulator I once had but much more portable
#4
22nd March 2012
Old 22nd March 2012
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nedorama is offline
Ah, the old ADA MicroCab II. Had 2 of those at one point and that was what I compared the Red Box to. Definitely much more portable...
#5
22nd March 2012
Old 22nd March 2012
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The Koch dummy box home is the best advice I can give you. It is a 60 W dummy load with a lot of options for recording from there.
Such as the signal to DAW with the Koch speaker emulation (which btw sound good) or without the Koch emulation and you can use impulses latter on. You can use it with or without a cabinet connected. Without cab you can recording silently; with cab you can choose the degree of attenuation and cranck the poweramp and mic the cab and still have the direct (with or without emulation) signal going to your DAW.
Very versatile device I'm totally convinced with mine.
#6
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progfreak View Post
The Koch dummy box home is the best advice I can give you. It is a 60 W dummy load with a lot of options for recording from there.
Such as the signal to DAW with the Koch speaker emulation (which btw sound good) or without the Koch emulation and you can use impulses latter on. You can use it with or without a cabinet connected. Without cab you can recording silently; with cab you can choose the degree of attenuation and cranck the poweramp and mic the cab and still have the direct (with or without emulation) signal going to your DAW.
Very versatile device I'm totally convinced with mine.


I'm gonna be getting my first proper Valve/Tube Amp soon but for now I'll be mostly using it for recording. I spotted the Koch DummyBox at Thomann, it looks like just what I need at a good price. I'm more than likely gonna go for the Orange TH30 so the dummybox's 60watt limit should be ok. But I see that the dummy box has an 8 ohm input & unlike its bigger brother "the load box II" doesn't seem to come in various ohm options.

I'll probably be getting a 16 ohm cab & it looks like the attenuation output of the dummybox can go to a speaker from 4 - 16 ohms. So I'm guessing the speaker thru output would have to match the 8 ohms input from the amp...yes??

One other thing, how safe are these attenuators/dummyoxes? The Amp I'm getting is pretty expensive (to me anyway) wouldn't want it to come to any harm.
#7
22nd April 2012
Old 22nd April 2012
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Or, if you're not tied to the amp itself you could get an amp sim. Before you react and go "OMG no way, no fizz and phasing for me!" hear me out. Firstly amp sims have come a long way in the past couple of years. Secondly for your needs and situation it may make more sense.

For just knocking about ideas you can get any old thing, even software sims for the ultimate in light travel and while it wont sound and react the same as the real thing it'll at least give you some useable tones when sketching stuff out.

If however, you want something that will track, feel and sound like the real deal, then get a Kemper. Sounds better than my Mesa through a load box/attenuator (although of course it can sound identical to my Mesa through a load box/attenuator when I use the profile of my Mesa through a load box/attenuator), can store any number of your tones exactly as you'd record them in a studio from your real amp, and is dead easy to use.
#8
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
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Just use a plug in...and send me the DI to reamp using the plug in as tonal guide. Hit me up...I'm cheap, and have several nice boutique amps.

I don't have to be quiet.
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#9
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Or, if you're not tied to the amp itself you could get an amp sim. Before you react and go "OMG no way, no fizz and phasing for me!" hear me out. Firstly amp sims have come a long way in the past couple of years. Secondly for your needs and situation it may make more sense.

For just knocking about ideas you can get any old thing, even software sims for the ultimate in light travel and while it wont sound and react the same as the real thing it'll at least give you some useable tones when sketching stuff out.

If however, you want something that will track, feel and sound like the real deal, then get a Kemper. Sounds better than my Mesa through a load box/attenuator (although of course it can sound identical to my Mesa through a load box/attenuator when I use the profile of my Mesa through a load box/attenuator), can store any number of your tones exactly as you'd record them in a studio from your real amp, and is dead easy to use.
I already have Amplitube 3 & think its a fantastic amp sim. I use it all the time for practice & recording but I've always wanted a real tube amp. Only had solid state amps & even though there can be a lot more maintenance involved with tube amps, I still really want one. The Kemper is a brilliant piece of tech but I sorta want to make things more simple with less options, buttons & knobs to fiddle with.

If I was recording the amp with a loadbox, I'll probably cut out the loadbox cab sim, record flat & use one from Amplitube or some other cab impulses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
Just use a plug in...and send me the DI to reamp using the plug in as tonal guide. Hit me up...I'm cheap, and have several nice boutique amps.

I don't have to be quiet.
Thanks I'll keep that in mind, but I still wanna get me a decent amp
#10
24th April 2012
Old 24th April 2012
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Just saying...between the VVT Fralin...Rienhardt Storm33...custom GemTone el84 combo...bassmanRI...cool pedal board--I can dial in whatever you need save maybe death metal*. Send it as a dynamic (sound dependent, which one) and a 121. Millenia or UA preamps...La3a(vintage one)...Speck ASCt...whatever it takes to nail the tone you need.

*I can get a triple rec here, if need be...but, I'd probably have to cut the owner in, so might not be as cheap.
#11
25th April 2012
Old 25th April 2012
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Simma Lugnt is offline
Mesa Studio Preamp

I found Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp to do an excellent job on silent tracking and is VERY versatile/better sounding than JMP1 or POD IMO.
Cleans from the Mesa are fantastic. If i did't tell you, you wouldn't notice it's not an real amp Experiment with different tubes for your taste.
Drv channel is also usable iwhen you use cabinett impulses. I think it's a sleeper!

Grab it if you see one.
#12
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
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Talk to your local guitar shop improviser and he can build you a load box with a line level out for <$100.00 (he likes to double the Ohms of the resistors)

If you need PM i'll give you the place where I get mine which is fabulous.

Still waiting for Radial to make a nice one with transformers.

Don't buy Hotplate or expensive Attenuator for this it's a waste and a difference concept (and expensive).

Once you get the line level into your DAW use something like Two-tone Torpedo, Recabinet, Redwirez, Nebula etc etc.

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29th April 2012
Old 29th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt View Post
I found Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp to do an excellent job on silent tracking and is VERY versatile/better sounding than JMP1 or POD IMO.
Cleans from the Mesa are fantastic. If i did't tell you, you wouldn't notice it's not an real amp Experiment with different tubes for your taste.
Drv channel is also usable iwhen you use cabinett impulses. I think it's a sleeper!

Grab it if you see one.
Pretty much anything Mesa Boogie is way out of my price range. I did consider getting the ENGL E530 pre-amp but it seems mostly geared towards Metal (which I like) but I'd like something a bit more versatile. So I think I'll wait till June for the Tubemeister 36 to come out. Its got silent recording with the redbox output. if I'm not happy with redbox I could probably just record the preamp from the FX loop & use cab impulses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Talk to your local guitar shop improviser and he can build you a load box with a line level out for <$100.00 (he likes to double the Ohms of the resistors)

If you need PM i'll give you the place where I get mine which is fabulous.

Still waiting for Radial to make a nice one with transformers.

Don't buy Hotplate or expensive Attenuator for this it's a waste and a difference concept (and expensive).

Once you get the line level into your DAW use something like Two-tone Torpedo, Recabinet, Redwirez, Nebula etc etc.

I'd actually be surprised if the local music store owner new what an attenuator was. He stocks mostly cheap wesfield guitars & roland cube amps, not a tube amp in sight. There's a Cort G210 2TS in the window, pretty decent looking guitar but He's charging £600 for it & you can get the same guitar from thomann for £118!! I only go in there for strings & picks if I have to.

I have a bunch of impulses I bought from recabinet a while ago plus I can also bypass the amp end of Amplitube & only use the cab.

Thanks for the offer of hooking me up with your guitar shop guy but I think I'm a bit far away being in Ireland & all
#14
29th April 2012
Old 29th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevy2000 View Post
I'd actually be surprised if the local music store owner new what an attenuator was. He stocks mostly cheap wesfield guitars & roland cube amps, not a tube amp in sight. There's a Cort G210 2TS in the window, pretty decent looking guitar but He's charging £600 for it & you can get the same guitar from thomann for £118!! I only go in there for strings & picks if I have to.

I have a bunch of impulses I bought from recabinet a while ago plus I can also bypass the amp end of Amplitube & only use the cab.
For Silent Recording you don't want a Attenuator, you want a Resistor Dummy Load Box and internals to make a line level signal.

Yes the line out of Fx loop is just as good going into cabinet impulses (because cab impulses also have poweramp 'captured' in them.
#15
29th April 2012
Old 29th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
For Silent Recording you don't want a Attenuator, you want a Resistor Dummy Load Box and internals to make a line level signal.

Yes the line out of Fx loop is just as good going into cabinet impulses (because cab impulses also have poweramp 'captured' in them.
Yeah I know, but there are a few boxes that can act as both attenuator & dummy load box which is very handy. Still think I'll hold out a while longer for the Tubemeister 36 that's coming in June, plenty of features, sounds really good & I like how very compact it is for a 3 channel amp. If I don't like the redbox output, I can always go preamp output & cab impulses.
#16
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevy2000 View Post
Yeah I know, but there are a few boxes that can act as both attenuator & dummy load box which is very handy. Still think I'll hold out a while longer for the Tubemeister 36 that's coming in June, plenty of features, sounds really good & I like how very compact it is for a 3 channel amp. If I don't like the redbox output, I can always go preamp output & cab impulses.
The reason I say it's so common is because Dummy Load box is what Guitar tech use to test and bias amps with.
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