Anyone get as pissed off at Fulltone as I did?

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

What kicks me about Fuller is the hype he puts out on his manual sheets about the pedals, blah, blah, best thing since fried chicken, you look at his own personal board and he does not use his own pedals.

In all fairness, this level of self-hype is pretty common with manufactures in general. And I think that many players just fall for it i.e the expect the impossible. No matter what anybody tells you, NO pedal will make an amp sound like a wide-open Plexi in the same way that no compressor pedal will ever be 'transparent'.

The big 'hype' with distortion/overdrive pedals seems to be headroom. OCD is the greatest pedal ever but we just released the Plimsoul which of course leaves the OCD in the dust - and then some. Fact is, I don't WANT too much headroom on a distortion pedal, I didn't like the OCD on 12 or 18V. IMO, the sound becomes harsh and taut. VMMV.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

This is a good point especially when recording. I think the evolution of the OCD follows the typical growth/problem of trying to get "more". Kind of how I view the evolution of distorted guitar sounds from the '70s into the decade that followed:
Bad Company, Thin Lizzy = ballsy
Van Halen = more distortion and still ballsy
'80s beer commercial and bands with that sound = even more distortion, balls are now gone.

OCD V4 to my ears crossed over into fizzy beer commercial territory.

Sounds like what he went for on the OCD. I still here some rave about the pedal but as an OD, really Barber would kill it in an A/B as a dist it just does not come close to others. My Ibanez Tube King TK999HT red box is just a killer pedal. I currently do not have a fuzz unit and haven't had one since my old Muff and Fuzz Face days. Lately I've been wanting one of those Prescription Electronics Experience pedals again, that was some really fun Jimi in a box, high-tech coolness.

I am very old school in musical tastes, having cut my teeth on Jimmy Page then Jeff Beck, Trower's major effect coolness. I was never that insane on EVH but great tones especially from Eddie's real caveman approach to gear. Mom can always buy you kids another Marshall. These days I dig Satriani's work and his last release was just peerless for me. As for pure tone I am more into Jeff Beck's Live at Ronnie Scott's.

I do have a lot of variations of gains which is the fun for me. Too much dist does wash out, but that can be fun to play w for a goof, I used to enjoy my Keeley mod Metal Zone and the Hardwire Metal can be some fun to mess with. I would never use it in a band or recording.

I general I go for less gain and more EQ tone voice.

I am really picky about gains and ODs and I experiment with different tubes in my amp all the time. My amp is a 3 channel all tube plus I have various pedals which apply to various channel setups. I like options, and that is why I have always liked pedals and pedalboards. So much more interesting and fun to play plus it opens the door of creativity.

I agree w the v4 fizz. Pulling out the germanium diode made it much more a low gain booster or OD but it is still lacking. Also I am sick of ODs w just 3 knobs. I want more than a treble rolloff as a tone control. One reason I love Barber, he often has 4 trimpots inside and a push/pull on the tone knob for more options. I love to be able to tweak on the knobs. I tend to have to adjust my ODs each time I play because EQ and input push is all subject to vol and the present situation. I have some new ODs in my sites but the budget is not there any time soon so I have to use what I have. At least the operation on the OCD gave something I can use verses a box in the box awaiting trade off.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

In all fairness, this level of self-hype is pretty common with manufactures in general. And I think that many players just fall for it i.e the expect the impossible. No matter what anybody tells you, NO pedal will make an amp sound like a wide-open Plexi in the same way that no compressor pedal will ever be 'transparent'.

The big 'hype' with distortion/overdrive pedals seems to be headroom. OCD is the greatest pedal ever but we just released the Plimsoul which of course leaves the OCD in the dust - and then some. Fact is, I don't WANT too much headroom on a distortion pedal, I didn't like the OCD on 12 or 18V. IMO, the sound becomes harsh and taut. VMMV.

Yeah, too true but I always get the idea Fuller writes that stuff himself and it is not a typical review add. Bottom line is everything matters and every rig is different. Amps, guitars, infinitely variable much less what pedals respond well them and then the futher issue of chaining effects. It is rather infinite. I have always held that a good experienced player can make anything sound good or at least rangle the best tones out of it. For me I liked the OCD on 16v but I use it more as a clean boost and I like the headroom. Might be why I hated the dist on it, although I can't say the 9v made me like it. I just do not like gainy ODs. For me the whole purpose of an OD is to push that tube front end and/or take a slightly breaking up amp into really great tone land. I am currently using the ICE 9 which is not a gainy drive by any means but has some real db boost power on the putput, too much really. I still want Barber and deciding between all his models is a challege without being able to test drive them. So far I like the Small Fry and the Cool Drive for my choices. There is of course the Hermida Zen Drive and some others. The LovePedal Estacy drive also. Wampler is probably good but I suspect his is really gainy as he makes some real blistering dist boxes.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

There must be another diode in that position on the v3 adding more dist but for me it is workable as is.

There is only one diode in the V3 circuit. The clipping section is actually the two mosfet transistors. I just noticed the audio clips part of the link you posted. The only problem with putting all the pots at the exact same position for each comparison is that when you change pot values and taper it is no longer a true A/B comparison. It was interesting to hear the differences none the less.
There are MANY things you can do to this circuit but I don't want to send you down a path of no return (not at least until I know you have a good solder sucker ). The tone control cap (C7) looks easy though. You can get a .047uf film cap at Radio Shack. The one I built for myself is based on the OCD but it is modded to my tastes. A few things that made a difference to me was to use a .022uf box cap for the input instead of a .02uf film and silver mica caps in place of any ceramic disc caps. I also have a TL072 opamp instead of a TL082.
Some friends and I just did a cover version of the Black Crowes "Jealous Again" at my place and the guitarist used the pedal on all of the guitar tracks.
It's a free download if you want to check it out:
Byron Zanos

And come to think of it you might want to try getting another TL802 and "stacking" it for more headroom/gain like this:
Effects Connection Online Store
They are only 50 cents here:
TL082 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
I would try to get it to stay in place without solder and see if you like it first and make sure you orient it the same way as the other.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

There is only one diode in the V3 circuit. The clipping section is actually the two mosfet transistors. I just noticed the audio clips part of the link you posted. The only problem with putting all the pots at the exact same position for each comparison is that when you change pot values and taper it is no longer a true A/B comparison. It was interesting to hear the differences none the less.
There are MANY things you can do to this circuit but I don't want to send you down a path of no return (not at least until I know you have a good solder sucker ). The tone control cap (C7) looks easy though. You can get a .047uf film cap at Radio Shack. The one I built for myself is based on the OCD but it is modded to my tastes. A few things that made a difference to me was to use a .022uf box cap for the input instead of a .02uf film and silver mica caps in place of any ceramic disc caps. I also have a TL072 opamp instead of a TL082.
Some friends and I just did a cover version of the Black Crowes "Jealous Again" at my place and the guitarist used the pedal on all of the guitar tracks.
It's a free download if you want to check it out:
Byron Zanos

And come to think of it you might want to try getting another TL802 and "stacking" it for more headroom/gain like this:
Effects Connection Online Store
They are only 50 cents here:
TL082 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
I would try to get it to stay in place without solder and see if you like it first and make sure you orient it the same way as the other.

Love the info, thanks for jumping in. Yeah, there is no A/B thing I am going for, I am just excited to remove all that diode gain. The pots are way different and the v3 has different tone cap, I do not know which position is the tone cap or anything else. I am assuming Fuller would be the last one to offer details as he used to completely epoxy out the v1.

I love the idea of customizing this puppy. It's like this, I paid $135 something for it, I trade it in, they are going to want to give me $30 maybe $40, hardly worth it, so if I can mod this puppy out, why not?

I love the removal of the germaniun diode, really gets it back to where I first liked the OCD. All the fizzy gain is gone, much more musical. I just loaded it into my board today messing with it and really it is useable again. It is reacting well with my ICE 9 after it and my higher gains, really pleased. I keep thinking I hear a little crap interference in there at times on clean, but maybe not. I am trying some higher voltages on it to see the head room. So far I am pleased because I can use the box again.

I am very interested in your suggested mods, if I can locate the proper components. I have heard good things about the film caps and such, sounds like the way to go. I would love to completely mod this puppy out, do you think I can wack the OCD w new parts and it will still be a quiet unit? If I ruin the thing I am not out much, the trade in value is not an issue.

I do have some solder wick I use all the time, best thing to do is wick off the solder first thing. Do you have some more precise indicators of the various components? This is the 1st time I have gotten into a box messing with it so I am pretty green. I just recently got into learning how to bias my amp. I love the idea of making a custom OD out of this box.

[Chunky Karma]

I did list a few specifics in my last post but I'll get extra specific since you are so adventurous. I don't have an OCD so I'm going by the pic in your link. Make sure you double check the values before replacing anything. Here is thekitchensinkallIcanthinkofoffthetopofmyheadmodpossibilitieswithoutgettingtoocrazy mods for your OCD.

1. Change C7 to .047 film
Pedal Parts Plus: .047 Polyester Film Capacitor 100v

2. Change C10 and C11 (mouse turd) ceramic disc caps (220pF, should have the numbers 221 on the cap) to silver mica caps:
Pedal Parts Plus: Silver Mica 220pf

3. Change C2 to .022:
Pedal Parts Plus: .022 uf 63v Polyester Film Capacitor
I can't tell for sure from the pic if that is the one I think it is. Let me know what it says on that one.

4. Get one each of the TL082 and TL072 dual opamps and try each one stacked as described in my last post:
TL082 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
TL072 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
If you dig the sound then solder to each lug of the other opamp. If not you are only out $1 plus shipping. Send them to me!

5. The only other thing would be C13. What does it say on that one? Without seeing where the PCB traces are going I can't tell exactly what's going on there.
Just in case, get a .1mf cap until we figure it out:
Pedal Parts Plus: .1 uf 50v Polyester Film Capacitor

[Chunky Karma]

Here's a list of a few places to get parts:


Pedal Parts Plus, Inc.

Caps n' Such

Mammoth Electronics

Small Bear Electronics Stock List Home Page

http://www.effectsconnection.com/

Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

I did list a few specifics in my last post but I'll get extra specific since you are so adventurous. I don't have an OCD so I'm going by the pic in your link. Make sure you double check the values before replacing anything. Here is thekitchensinkallIcanthinkofoffthetopofmyheadmodpossibilitieswithoutgettingtoocrazy mods for your OCD.

1. Change C7 to .047 film
Pedal Parts Plus: .047 Polyester Film Capacitor 100v

2. Change C10 and C11 (mouse turd) ceramic disc caps (220pF, should have the numbers 221 on the cap) to silver mica caps:
Pedal Parts Plus: Silver Mica 220pf

3. Change C2 to .022:
Pedal Parts Plus: .022 uf 63v Polyester Film Capacitor
I can't tell for sure from the pic if that is the one I think it is. Let me know what it says on that one.

4. Get one each of the TL082 and TL072 dual opamps and try each one stacked as described in my last post:
TL082 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
TL072 - Dual Op Amp - JFET
If you dig the sound then solder to each lug of the other opamp. If not you are only out $1 plus shipping. Send them to me!

5. The only other thing would be C13. What does it say on that one? Without seeing where the PCB traces are going I can't tell exactly what's going on there.
Just in case, get a .1mf cap until we figure it out:
Pedal Parts Plus: .1 uf 50v Polyester Film Capacitor

Bloody awesome, this is!! I will have to wait to get some budget money even though most of these are cheap I would imagine, I am hoping one can just get a few parts rather than have to get a bulk. Seems like years back, my brother took me to some electronics parts store somewhere around town, I'll have to search and see if they still exist. Might be easier and faster than having to order everything.

I just mounted the box into my board w new cables so I will dig it out and look at C13 as soon as I can.

Thanks so much for the info. I am going to dig into the issue and make sure I understand everything before I jump in and possibly kill the board.

Is there some sort of comparision pedal that all these mods would be close to? I wonder why he does not make a version like this or someone like Keeley does not mod them out? The mod I did definitely lacks quality and I am sure the better parts above would cure that out, seems like it would be a really killer OD afterwards. I am excited about the project.

[darkhorse]

When I open it up I will shoot a close up picture of it.

Again, thanks so much. Finally a webs site with some substance.

[darkhorse]

Can you explain more about the issue of changing or "stacking" the FET/JFETs? Do you just literally connect pin to pin on top of the other? This is an interesting idea as FETs can mimic tube response and feel which is always one of the comments about the OCD.

Will the stacking or replacing produce more gain? Or is it more of tone issue? I am really looking for more of a Barber type less gain drive w more EQ voice just slight gain. Should I replace or stack the FETs?

Why doesn't Fuller opt for these better components and make a better OD even if it costs more? He always brags he has his own supplies of photocells and such why does it opt for the better caps? He could easier sell a better component OCD more to the $200 range and have a much better boutique pedal, or perhaps, that is what he had in mind w the RTO version. Anyone know what's in there?

I was reading up on some old comments on the OCD. When it first came out everyone loved it and raved on it, some offering mods. V1 was completely epoxied to prevent copy. Easier method to just erase the chip IDs with a pencil eraser unless he felt the resistors and caps needed protection. I keep wondering why he uses the less tonal parts?

Some apparently liked the high gain capability of the pedal and Fuller's seems to have gone in that direction. A direction which moves away from a real overdrive and just becomes another gain box. i mean seriously there are a lot of other boxes which did that "amazing amp" mimic better, like the Wampler Pinnacle II, the Lovepedal Purple Plexi, the Carl Martin Plexi.

There were a lot of strange older complaints that the pedal did not sound right having other pedals before and after it, which I found odd. Some said it did not like buffered pedals and others said bypass presented problems as it did not play well with others. I have found that it did not like modulators before it but really no issues in a chain messing w the tone. When it is off it seems to be as transparent as any other bypass pedal. When on I find my new diode out version to make a nice cleaner boost into the other pedals. With tone down and gain just barely active it gets me closer to the v3 sound I liked.

The OCD came out of work w Robin Trower to make him a more suitable OD pedal. He had been using the old Fulltone Distortion Pro and an early Fat Boost to get his tone. The Pro was w the gain all the way down and the Fat Boost into it drive up. The 1st OCD was created to provide Robin that tone but better. He contined to change the OCD but it seemed to have left Trower's needs in the process. He came out w the RTO Trower OD version which seems a little gainy for me still. I have heard Trower used the OCD full up and rolled off his guitar volume to control it. There are arguments on whether he used the gain full up or the vol or both. Does anyone have any experience w the RTO? Is it a better OCD version?

I am game to play mad scientist on this box and see what can come of it. It will do until I can afford my further OD targets regarding Barber, Lovepedal or Hermida. Do these mods get anywhere near that type of OD?

One reason the ICE 9 grew on me is because it was not an extremely gainy OD but had a huge db vol boost capability (including the "more" +12db switch). The more I experiment w it the more I like it. It does not, however, clean up very well into more of a clean boost as does not quite attain the TS type OD tones which are also a little gainy. The ICE 9 is a true overdrive in every sense of the word. It cranks a channel near breakup into sonic heaven and acts well in front of the higher gains on a clean channel to enhance the dynamics. Many complaned when it first came out the Vox demos had the amp to near breakup but I understand why that the deal, this is where the ICE 9 does its best work. It pushes that tube front end and makes a gained or near gained channel much better. Sort of like a clean boost but with more character. I find running the diode- OCD in front of the ICE 9 a rather nice tone stack, not too gainy like 2 TS units can muster (SRV) but a nice thick OD tone more akin to what I like.

Again, I really thank the gurus here for their excellent tech advice and tips. First website I have delt w where you can actually learn something. Although my background was in engineering, I was never envolved in circuit construction or component issues. I created the silicon wafer levels that one cut to make chips rendered into the epoxy blocks everyone is familar. My knowledge in that arena was very specialized and rather useless to anything else after Bush allowed all the jobs to go overseas and plants to shut down. I am blessed to be retired these days and off the wheel. I have limited income so I have to wait for a window in order to budget funds to the guitar. One reason I do not have $300 vibes and $200 or more ODs.

I have never soldered much of anything but pickup wiring in my life, so pardon my ignorance in asking questions. Others like me can take note if I can pick up on this just about anyone can. One needs a basic knowledge of how to solder and what not to do and you are off and running.

[darkhorse]

I was just running the diode removed OCD through its paces and I have to say, wow, what a difference.
Removing the germanium diode out of the final stage reverts the unit back the far better and more tube like FET gain, w all the touch and feel everyone always liked about the OCD. Everything that I liked about the v3, I cannot do an A/B but I suspect it's as good or better than I remember. Just have to knob it in as the cap and vol are different.

I finally got my killer Trower tone back. I run the OCD tone mid, gain 9:00, LP, vol almost all the way, into my ICE 9 set low gain heavy tone and that into my channel 2 set like a breaking up darker JCM 800. Killer tone. I have my Pickle Vibe tweaked to feed into the breakup channel gain, and man the warble into partial feedback and sustain is all there. I prefer the T-Rex Viper for more of a Hendrix Univibe tone but the little Lovepedal sounds great in front of the amp breakup. Not the mega priced vibe I would like but that little puppy really sounds great for a tweaked phaser circuit.

Once again, I am digging the OCD. Removing that fizzy germanium gain was all it needed. If the component mods improve it from this point I do not know why someone doesn't market it. Still waiting on "Chunky Karma" for some more info and if there is anything out there that the rebuild might sound somewhat similar. I still am not too up on the single knob "tone" control which is really just a treble roll off, which works for my use at the moment but it would be really nice to have some boost/cut bass and treble controls. Apparently a lot of OCD users out there think it is a boost/cut mid flat control, but once again you have to read the info on the pedal. The Fat Boost is the same deal, treble up is no cut. The bass adds in more on that pedal. Oh what a pedal the OCD would be if it had more tone control capability. I was reading of one guys mods who installed some toggle switches for different caps. Now that is a cool idea but probably beyond my wiring ability. How cool would option cap switches be and that cool FET stack Karma was talking about?

The ex-german OCD works very well clean, w enough vol to push the tube front end functioning as true OD and not a lower gain box that v4 turned into. Gain at 9:00 is perfect. Gives it just a little hair on the OD push. I dig it. Works very well stacking to create my Trower tone and also as a std OD into the gained tube channels or high gain boxes. It is not the "best" or the end all of overdrives, but getting rid of that germanium diode makes it so much better!

I have also learned to really appreciate and enjoy the ICE 9 OD. The ICE 9 is an OD in every sense of the word. More than just a gainy TS clone this unit has perhaps the greatest db output of any pedal I have seen or have used. It is made to push on those tubes, like a true OD, and once you get the feel of it and how to use it, it really is a great OD pedal. Joe has this pedal voiced very well and much unlike the Satchurator the tone control is useable throughout its range from dark to treble end. The addition of the bass control which injects after the drive stage is really nice and thickens the tone without adding mud.

I am able to use these two boxes together because I keep the gain down on both and just go for the tone. Each sounds great alone or stacked on any level of amp channel or in front of my higher gain boxes. Really happy with the result. If adding in the components further enhances the OCD from this point, I may not be able to sleep.

I still wonder why Fuller with his "top shelf component selections" does not go for these better tonal FETs and caps, much less why he added the germanium into the OCD and made it too gainy??? Taking the diode out makes for a far better pedal. Maybe it's just me, but I like low gain ODs, I find them much more useful and tonal. If I want gain the OD overdrives the tubes or in front of my high gains it makes them sing.


Again thanks to CHUNKY KARMA and the GearSlutz website!!!!!

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Can you explain more about the issue of changing or "stacking" the FET/JFETs? Do you just literally connect pin to pin on top of the other? This is an interesting idea as FETs can mimic tube response and feel which is always one of the comments about the OCD.

Will the stacking or replacing produce more gain? Or is it more of tone issue?

The Beavis audio site has a pretty good explanation of opamp stacking on this page:

Beavis Audio Research

I would recommend checking out that sites "tech pages" as well for general info about pedal circuits and mods.

Maybe you will like stacked opamps in the OCD and maybe you won't. For 50 cents why not give it a shot? Just don't solder it in place until you are sure that is what you want. The stacking idea only came to mind because you said you wanted to experiment.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

The Beavis audio site has a pretty good explanation of opamp stacking on this page:

Beavis Audio Research

I would recommend checking out that sites "tech pages" as well for general info about pedal circuits and mods.

Maybe you will like stacked opamps in the OCD and maybe you won't. For 50 cents why not give it a shot? Just don't solder it in place until you are sure that is what you want. The stacking idea only came to mind because you said you wanted to experiment.

Sounds interesting, something I have not heard of before. Thanks for the URL, very interesting info.

Here is something interesting to add to the controversy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpTv2...eature=related (OP-Amp Myth)

claims the sound between Op-Amps makes no real difference.

[Chunky Karma]

I wouldn't take it as far as he does on that page for your purposes. One would be enough to experiment with.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Still waiting on "Chunky Karma" for some more info and if there is anything out there that the rebuild might sound somewhat similar.

I posted this earlier but it seems that you might have missed it. I'll attach mp3's right here. The first is a cover of the Black Crowes "Jealous Again" we did for fun. ALL the guitars went through my homebrew OCDish pedal set to be used more subtly as a boost with some added gain then straight into amp. It's a free download if you want the whole recording:

Byron Zanos

The next clip pretty much has everything cranked. I built a boost into my pedal (after distortion) and that's engaged as well. It was for Rob Reich's Mastering The Modes website so the tune stays on one chord for demonstration purposes. He plays a pretty burning solo none the less. I'll link his website as well:

Master The Modes

[darkhorse]

Yeah. I must have missed this. I will check it out tomorrow as it's too late right now to listen to anything. I have my TV on 1 and the wifey is waking up, funny she can never hear me, but the TV on closed caption wakes her up...

I thank you again for the advice on clipping the germanium out of the unit, I would have never attempted it on my own for fear of just killing the unit. I am happy w the tone and look forward to experimenting with the different parts, maybe later this month. I am sooooooo broke these days.

I love the less gain FET tone, really is more like the V3. I just wish there were more tone control options or toggles to alter it. I have a StellarTone ToneStyler tone control on my better Strat which is a great high pass cap matrix. If I want to roll off my highs that puppy does it better than anything. It's interesting to keep the tone up on the OCD and use the ToneStyler to roll off some of the treble.

I just tend to have the OCD set rather dark and warm, at low LP switch gain (I do not always like that HP high end peak) and more or less use it for my Trower stack tone w the ICE 9. Although it sounds fine by itself, my amp has 2 clean post preamp boosts that really gets it going.

Really a nice overdrive that ICE 9 but does not go clean. Reacts very well to any sort of tube channel or before any other higher gain boxes. I find it to be a real true overdive in every sense of the word but it is anything but transparent or like a clean boost.

The stack of the OCD into the ICE 9 gives a really nice thick, not too gainy, Trower tone into my Vibes. Just do not like the Vibe in front and the OCD seems to hate any pre modulation. The Pickle Vibe can be used pre gains or OD but still the sound for me is greatly reduced. Now running the Pickle or the T-Rex into a dark JCM 800 type channel is just great. It gets that warble feedback sustain w the ODs. I am an old school Trower freak and after I do my fusion thing I can hardly resist doing some riffs w that heavy tone warble.

[darkhorse]

The more I use this 3.5 mod the more I like it. I am thinking apart from my memory of the v3 and how those things are always fonder than they were, I am thinking this mod is better than the v3 was as it has tighter and less muddy bass w the tone turned down. Despite it only has the roll off tone control, you can get some good tones out of it and the new gain structure is to die for. A real OD, not just another dist gain box. I use the ICE9 as well which has its merits but that OCD just shines in any useage format. Super quality pots on that puppy. Some might say "why not just keep the drive down", well, you can get a clean boost out of it but there is a huge difference in the gain structure even drive slightly on.

I really, really like the sound of this mod (rave, rave, rant, rant). I mentioned this on another board and got these guys castigating me for clipping the diode out and using the board pins to connect the bridge.

They were concerned with "saving the diode and desoldering it out of the board". Spending all that time and trying to cut it loose from the silicon goop it was sealed in plus all the resoldering is far from "simple mod". What could be better than using the factory board pin conenctions and merely bend over and solder connect the remaining pins. Seems rather a smart fix for my view. ChunkyKarma you rule!!!! I do not get some of these DYI guys. God they would be fun to argue tube types and makes. Yeah, I get the deep down tech procedure but I do not have the bench setup for high end tech operations. For a basic non tech guy like me it was an easy procedure and FREE, had it been too complicated I would probably not attempt it. In doing so it really fired me up to get into the more complex issues.

I did not like the v4 and was not using it, ready to trade it off for probably the grand ripoff sum of $30. I paid $135 for it I think, and was not using it. I did not mind at all clipping out the germanium diode making it a useful and really toneful pedal. And as for saving a germanium diode, for what?

Anyone who plays the OCD, removing this diode on the v4 is in for a real tone treat, seems like a really place to add in a toggle switch plus stacking the Op Amps and toggles for differing tone caps like some others were talking about just might make this the best OD around.

FYI, I am trying to make use of my Fat Boost 3 again, still has a hum even at 9v, at 12v really bad, anyone got any ideas concerning replacing parts? As in the opening of this thread, Fulltone, is of no help. If I put an ISP Decimator in my loop chain would that take out the hum without killing my tone?

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

I wouldn't take it as far as he does on that page for your purposes. One would be enough to experiment with.

They say the stacking blends the different op amps while the guy at VS states there is no real difference. Not sure what Fuller has in there now but the gain structure is delicious.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

They say the stacking blends the different op amps while the guy at VS states there is no real difference. Not sure what Fuller has in there now but the gain structure is delicious.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I hear a difference although I have never tried it in an OCD. I like the way mine sounds already with the single TL082. I figured since you were asking for possible mods for your pedal why not see for yourself.

It's only 50 cents.

But it sounds like you are happy with it now as it is.
Enjoy and make music!
I'm glad I was able to help.
Let's have a beer if you are ever in the NYC area.
Greg

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

[B]
FYI, I am trying to make use of my Fat Boost 3 again, still has a hum even at 9v, at 12v really bad, anyone got any ideas concerning replacing parts? As in the opening of this thread, Fulltone, is of no help. If I put an ISP Decimator in my loop chain would that take out the hum without killing my tone?

Oh yeah, your original post. I almost forgot.
Did you do a search to see if this is a known issue with this pedal?
Also:
1. Have you tried a different power supply?
2. Is the hum at 9v the same with a battery as it is with a power supply?
3. Have you looked inside and checked for bad or broken connections particularly those going to ground?
4. Do you still have the same issue when all other pedals are taken out of the chain?
5. Did you try a different brand of cables?
6. With the cables installed do you see a solid connection inside with the tip-sleeve on the output and the tip-ring-sleeve on the input?
7. Are the jacks touching anything they shouldn't be with the cables in?

[Chunky Karma]

Sounds very similar to your issue:
Argg! Fulltone Fat-Boost 3 hums when on power supply [Archive] - The Gear Page

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

I wouldn't take it as far as he does on that page for your purposes. One would be enough to experiment with.

VS claims the differing op-amps have no magical quality and they all sound the same or so close how can one tell anything?

I get confused on the tech because there are so many differing opinions about circuits and especially tubes. I use 5881/6L6 or EL34Bs in my amp and really is there a difference? My amp sounds great w either.

I serioulsy do not really notice it. Everybody says its the Marshall gain on EL34s but there are plenty of amps using 5881/6L6 like some Peaveys and Mesa which burn. I consider the basic design and intent of the amp which decrees the character. A high gain amp is going to be a high gain amp while a Fender type is going to be a Fender. They say 5881/6L6 is more bass and low contour but my amp is designed to have tremendous low end, and eother tube does about the same.

The same with preamp tubes. I am quite fond of my new box these days. the Ibanez Tube King TK000HT really a sweet pedal. Has a EH 12AX7A which is a highly rated tube, some reviewers have stated toss that tube and put in a Mullard or Mesa and really the unit sounds amazing. Some tubes are not made by their stamped name. It gets a little generic. The Tung Sol tubes are rated better than a lot of rare high dollar NOS stuff.

Changing to another 12AX7 is not going to change the voice character of the pedal. This is not a subtle pedal but an intense quality high voltage tube gain dist. Any 12AX7 is going to sound the same. Some are better made w less chance of microphonics and perhaps better quality. I often use JAN 5771 preamp tubes in my high gains to tone down the gain factor a little (SRV used to use them in V1) that is a less gain tube over a 12AX7 and it will alter the tone slightly.

So often I get confused by the hype and myth on a lot of components. One wonders if there is a measurable difference at times or if it's just "Eric Johnson ear" where batteries sound different.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

VS claims the differing op-amps have no magical quality and they all sound the same or so close how can one tell anything?

See post #49

[kafka]

Originally Posted by drbob1

Hermida's stuff is top notch which is why there're are Zendrives on a lot of pro boards. Another guy whose prices aren't bad.

Originally Posted by doorknocker

In all fairness, this level of self-hype is pretty common with manufactures in general. And I think that many players just fall for it i.e the expect the impossible. No matter what anybody tells you, NO pedal will make an amp sound like a wide-open Plexi in the same way that no compressor pedal will ever be 'transparent'.

I use both the Zendrive and Zendrive2, and like them well enough. They're fun pedals, and very responsive and flexible. The Zendrive can be a bit buzzy, and excels at putting just a little edge on front of the note. The ZD2 is meatier and smoother as an overdrive. They work pretty well together, actually, although there is some overlap.

The Zendrives are great, but honestly, anyone who claims these things will turn your Blues Deluxe or whatever into a Dumble is pulling your chain. Hermidia doesn't claim that himself, but there are plenty of fanbois and eBay sellers who do. I guess if you're willing to give me a hundred bucks more than I paid for it, than sure, it'll make you sound like a Dumble, or the Queen of England, or whatever you want. :-)

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by kafka

I use both the Zendrive and Zendrive2, and like them well enough. They're fun pedals, and very responsive and flexible. The Zendrive can be a bit buzzy, and excels at putting just a little edge on front of the note. The ZD2 is meatier and smoother as an overdrive. They work pretty well together, actually, although there is some overlap.

The Zendrives are great, but honestly, anyone who claims these things will turn your Blues Deluxe or whatever into a Dumble is pulling your chain. Hermidia doesn't claim that himself, but there are plenty of fanbois and eBay sellers who do. I guess if you're willing to give me a hundred bucks more than I paid for it, than sure, it'll make you sound like a Dumble, or the Queen of England, or whatever you want. :-)

The matter of overdrives and gain pedals has so much to do with ones guitar and amp as well as the interaction of other effects, it is rather infinite. Also personal "taste" enters into the mix. You also have this thing where some are putting overdrives in front of non tube amps which sort of defeats the point and purpose of an overdrive, probably the why and how of how we got to really gainy ODs. If you run tubes you tend to like cleaner more transparent drives that push on the amp rather than over color the tone.

There is in all honesty not a lot of incredible differences in overdrives, you have to decide if you like a warmer less gainy or a more gain drive and the issue of the units db push output to the amp. There is no magic box and some are really overpriced. You can spend a fortune on a hard to get boutique box and find that it is not much different than a more generic one you already had.

I like my modifed OCD and the ICE 9 although I would love to try anything by Barber, Hermida, Lovepedal, Wampler. Plus there are so many other boxes out there and uncountable others. Apart from the basic design gain level and output issue as well as tone adjust "a knod's as good as a wink to a blind horse". I have always known and believed a good experienced player can make anything sound good. You have to shop around to find that particular drive that sings to you on your rig and your touch. There is no magic box, I have seen great boxes sound bad in the wrong hands.

I dig tonal options myself, Barber seems really up on the issue of internal trim pots and adjustments to dial in the box for your rig over others I have seen. They also have a range of really gainy to cleaner drives. I would opt for the Small Fry on the gain side and the Cool Drive on the cleaner drive.

I am also liking the real high current Ibanez Tube King pedals for high gain and OD. These puppies are really low priced for what you get.

I love my new less gainy OCD and the ICE 9 is a true overdrive tube pusher but ones addiction to the ever mythical tone never sleeps.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

See post #49

I'll go back and find that again. My short term memory sort of isn't.

Still loving the less gainy OCD. I would love some better tone control options and voicing. This germanium removed version (3.5) is so much better for me than the v4 I am still digging on the tones. The tone control leaves much to be desired but the voicing is workable and I think this puppy w the v4 cap change just might sound better than a stock v3.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

Oh yeah, your original post. I almost forgot.
Did you do a search to see if this is a known issue with this pedal?
Also:
1. Have you tried a different power supply?
2. Is the hum at 9v the same with a battery as it is with a power supply?
3. Have you looked inside and checked for bad or broken connections particularly those going to ground?
4. Do you still have the same issue when all other pedals are taken out of the chain?
5. Did you try a different brand of cables?
6. With the cables installed do you see a solid connection inside with the tip-sleeve on the output and the tip-ring-sleeve on the input?
7. Are the jacks touching anything they shouldn't be with the cables in?

Yeah, I've tried all sorts of power supplies all fed from a Furman Power Conditioner.
I do not use batteries these days so even if it did not hum with a battery it does not help me, although for the sake of trying it I will toss one in it.

There does not seem to be any visible issue w the internal components just has a faint hum at 9v, not much just enough to annoy you when not playing.

The more you increase the voltage the louder the hum. I have some really nice high end super quality cables I made myself. Any combination of others does not kill the hum. How do jacks touching on a board give you hum, does that make a possible ground loop or something? Does not seem to do anything on my board. The Fat Boost by itself into the amp still has the same noise floor. I am thinking of trying an ISP decimator in my loop to see if that won't clean up the noise floor even on the high gains.

Fulltone just does not want to talk about it, they think if you take it out of chain use a battery and different cables it won't be their box. When I told them it still hummed they just stopped talking to me. (My last Fulltone purchase I assure you. I would have dropped the OCD if it were not for the mod change which really makes it a great sounding pedal better than a v3 or v4.)

I have never had this issue before on anything. There just seems to be something inherent w that pedal sort of like a high gain pedal often has a noise floor but this is a clean boost and I use the drive all the way down. I am about ready to drop it off and find a better clean boost. That EP Booster looks appealing.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Yeah, I've tried all sorts of power supplies all fed from a Furman Power Conditioner.
I do not use batteries these days so even if it did not hum with a battery it does not help me, although for the sake of trying it I will toss one in it.

There does not seem to be any visible issue w the internal components just has a faint hum at 9v, not much just enough to annoy you when not playing.

The more you increase the voltage the louder the hum. I have some really nice high end super quality cables I made myself. Any combination of others does not kill the hum. How do jacks touching on a board give you hum, does that make a possible ground loop or something? Does not seem to do anything on my board. The Fat Boost by itself into the amp still has the same noise floor. I am thinking of trying an ISP decimator in my loop to see if that won't clean up the noise floor even on the high gains.

Fulltone just does not want to talk about it, they think if you take it out of chain use a battery and different cables it won't be their box. When I told them it still hummed they just stopped talking to me. (My last Fulltone purchase I assure you. I would have dropped the OCD if it were not for the mod change which really makes it a great sounding pedal better than a v3 or v4.)

I have never had this issue before on anything. There just seems to be something inherent w that pedal sort of like a high gain pedal often has a noise floor but this is a clean boost and I use the drive all the way down. I am about ready to drop it off and find a better clean boost. That EP Booster looks appealing.

See post #51

[darkhorse]

Thanks for that link on the Fat Boost, seems like that guy has the same problem I am having. Obviously a bad component as some of the commenter's are using daisy chain supplies and not getting a ground loop hum which I find extraordinary. I would never daisy chain my power supplies much less it is not possible on some of the high current pedals I use. I am not an Einstein of DIY or electronics but seriously so many players have no idea of the basic rules of electricity regarding guitar pedals. Like mA rules, it is not merely voltage that has to be matched but more so the mA requirement. How are they not getting bad switch popping (on true bypass) or no ground loop hum when chaining power from effect to effect. And yet their Fat Boost has no hum, one wonders if they hear their noise floor without playing or if their pedal is fine and somehow that poster and myself have bad or undervalue components, makes sense what he said I am curious if beefing up the cap will stop the hum.

It is hard to believe Fulltone does not have a care others are getting hum using power supplies and it is not our feeds, and seriously using a battery, I have not used batteries in a very long time and do not plan to go back. I do not want to have to unplug my pedals to save the batteries. That is always the solution w Fullone tech repair, unplug it use a battery and if there is not hum using a good cable by itself then it must be your end.


No more Fulltone pedals for me. I will keep the OCD mod until something better comes my way but the Fat Boost hum is just killing me. I always wanted a DejaVibe but not anymore.


I have tried all sorts of various supplies, bricks, and separate warts and they all hum, the more volts the more hum, has to be the cap on the power in supply.

[darkhorse]

Still messing w the modified OCD, a decent drive. I find the ICE 9 I have does things it cannot do and works with clean or high gain channels. Both sweeten up the dynamic response of high gain boxes when run in front. i think actually the ICE 9 really helps increase the dynamic sense of harmonics. I think the OCD sounds best by itself and pushed a little. I would still opt for a Barber when the time comes but for now I am getting some great tones.

Anyone discovered a noise floor issue w pedal cables when the metal plug covers touch? After it being mentioned above, I never gave that much thought but I started isolating the cables using a piece of electrical tape to stop the metal to metal contact w cables and boxes. Seems to have helped quite a bit.

Is this why Fulltone always wants you to remove the pedal and use a battery? I find Fulltone's interact w power supplies more than anything else, quite possibly grounding problems pedal to pedal or cable to cable. No one seems to mention this issue. The above mention of not letting the cable plug jackets touch was the first time I have ever heard of it. I notice most higher end boards avoid it by having pedals elevated and such. It must be the Fulltone's because I have never run into this before. Just never occurred to me that that might cause some ground loop interaction but I suppose it makes sense.
Oh, well, live and learn, as if that was the norm.

Looking for this issue I realized few had ever pondered it, a lot of players out there complaining they have noise until they touch the strings. Seriously, shielding, grounding, the bridge needs to be ground. I go to a lot of effort to shield and ground my guitars, all my Carvins including my kit I made have a ground under the bridge plus my extra shielding and I use base plates on my std single coils (very cool mod by the way!). I never imagined contact with the box housing or cable plug cover might interact.

Seems like an experienced player should get some idea that a ground problem exists when you touch and untouch the strings. A lot of this was on their new guitars. A builder seems should know the bridge has to be grounded. Is that some sort of "vintage" stupidity? I am not the brightest florescent in the house but the ignorance level of players that should really know better is astounding. I ran into a guy at the store who had never heard of polyphonic or monophonic tracking issue. Much less the problems w daisy chaining verses isolated filtered power supplies. Apparently those running chains of little Boss pedals are getting away with a lot of bad practices. Polyphonic, really, it just kills you when you see a demo where tracking glitch is thought to be a unique quality of a pedal. I have seen that about the Whammy pedal.