Mesa Boogie Mark V really disappointing

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

The only Mesa I found I ever liked was the original Mark I. The reissued MK I also sounded good. I played a Mark IV and hated it.

I have a Mark IIB here that I never liked, clean or dirty. I pulled the amp out of the cab and rewired the clean circuit to be similar a standard Fender BF circuit more or less, and then wired the distortion circuit to be similar to what some claim to be like the Dumble ODS. I have no way to know what is actually inside a Dumble, but the crude approximation I put in sounds way better than the original Boogie. You can do this as well if you know what you are doing and are not afraid of breaking through circuit board traces and rewiring things around a bit. The amp is hard to modify because it is not point to point. But it can be done. Also, changing out the speaker to a Weber helps.

I have an S.O.B. that I bought new back in `83 or so. Despite how the S.O.B. is maligned, it's actually a very good and straightforward amp. Just turn that damn limit knob so it's not really in the way, and it's like a more aggressive Mk1. You still have to treat the tone and 1st gain knobs gently, but it's not too hard to get a good sound out of it.

The MkII, however, is another animal altogether. There's an extra gain stage or two in there that gets fizzy when you don't want it to. It's also pretty picky about which tubes you use and where. IIRC, it was all Sylvania's back in the day. I found I didn't really get the hang of it until I spent some time looking at the schematic. Then, however, it all made sense.

At the moment I'm very happy with the GT CHP 6L6's in my MkIIb Simul-class. I forget what preamp tubes I'm using. It's some combination of Russian GT 12ax7's, Mullard reissues, and I think I put some NOS Phillips or Sylvanias in there somewhere. It could be better, but it's not my main amp right now, so figuring it out isn't a priority.

On the speaker, I've always felt that the EVM12L is great in the MKII. However, I LOVE the old Eminence 150W Mesa Black Shadow. It's warmer and more aggressive. Eminence recommended to me that the Man-O-War is the closest speaker they currently make to the old Black Shadow. I don't like a single Celestion in an open-backed combo at all - at least not with a Boogie - but they work great with the Mark series in a closed-backed 2x12 or 4x12 cab.

I'd love to pick up a MkV head, but I'm really happy with my other amps now, so I probably won't get around to it unless I can find a buyer for my MKIIb and my THD BiValve. The THD will probably end up paying for a JTM45 before I get another Boogie.

[DerekJ]

Originally Posted by kafka

I have an S.O.B. that I bought new back in `83 or so. Despite how the S.O.B. is maligned, it's actually a very good and straightforward amp.

Played on an SOB at a blues jam when I was in college, that amp was awesome with my Gretsch.

Originally Posted by kafka

end up paying for a JTM45 before I get another Boogie.

Sligo makes a nice JTM45 for a little over $1000...told me he sold one to Joe Walsh. He does well with his Marshall clones. Let the collectors have their museum....

[Snapcase]

I've had a few Boogies in my days, starting way back with Mark IIA in '80. Never could connect with any of them.

Same here. Had a bunch of them and always got better tone with any other amps. No more Mesa stuff for me (from ten years ago or so).

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by Snapcase

Same here. Had a bunch of them and always got better tone with any other amps. No more Mesa stuff for me (from ten years ago or so).

Not to mention that these were the heaviest little buggers I have ever owned. I once had a gig in Lincoln Park, North Side Chicago. Had to park a few blocks away and carry the thing. Holy crap, that was work!
With that EVM 12S, mine always felt like it was bolted to the ground.

[DerekJ]

Originally Posted by kennybro

Not to mention that these were the heaviest little buggers I have ever owned. I once had a gig in Lincoln Park, North Side Chicago. Had to park a few blocks away and carry the thing. Holy crap, that was work!
With that EVM 12S, mine always felt like it was bolted to the ground.

I thought it was illegal in Chicago for a guitarist to own a Boogie amp w/o a flight case w/casters....tearing arms off = strong legislative pen.

[RockerAlex]

I usually find if the Mark (X) isn't the amp for you then the Rectifier very much will be, have you tried one of those?

[AllAboutTone]

Well for me I like mesa and marshall, but the mesa cabs always win over any marshall cab, mesa makes the best cabs I have ever heard.
Sorry I have not heard the V

I use a Fuchs Viper with mesa cab.

[thejohncarroll]

Never owned a Boogie. Played through a couple of them on a fly-date session a few years ago. Electrodyne and Lonestar Special 1x12. Really dug the Lonestar.

The Mark V intrigued me, so I took my tele loaded w Bardens to play through one. This one was a head going through open-back 2x12 Rectifier cab w V-30s. I was able to coax every tone from straight jazz, to clean country, to Pete Anderson spanky stuff, to Gatton, to Larry Carlton, to Pete Townsend, to Luke, all the way up to Metallica!! *aaaaaaaah*

Lotta knobs and switches for sure, but, for me, right now, it's my desert island amp. I want one.....BAD!!

[Frodebro]

Originally Posted by thejohncarroll

The Mark V intrigued me, so I took my tele loaded w Bardens to play through one. This one was a head going through open-back 2x12 Rectifier cab w V-30s. I was able to coax every tone from straight jazz, to clean country, to Pete Anderson spanky stuff, to Gatton, to Larry Carlton, to Pete Townsend, to Luke, all the way up to Metallica!! *aaaaaaaah*

Lotta knobs and switches for sure, but, for me, right now, it's my desert island amp. I want one.....BAD!!

This is what is so appealing to me with my Mark V head. Everything that I could ever want is in there, and I can get there really quickly as well. There is none of this "spending more time tweaking than playing" crap once you take the time to learn the amp, which isn't all that difficult to begin with.

Switching guitars and cabs makes a huge difference as well, as this amp is very sensitive to even subtle changes in the chain around it. Some high-gain amps sound the same no matter which guitar is plugged into them, but not this one.

These amps aren't for everyone, but I couldn't be happier with mine. After three years of ownership, I'm still on the honeymoon.

[tridelica]

I am a 'schmuck' who has a Mark V. That puts in me in the company of uncool types like Petrucci and Lamb of God.
The V is an amp that one has for life. It is not easy to use, but it is mind numbingly versatile.
I first became enamored of Mesa while watching Santana and vaious Grateful Dead personnel in the Seventies use earlier iterations of this amp, which does everything from Fender to dual Rectumfryer.
One reason I like this amp is that it doesn't sound cliched, except when I deliberately channel some Carlos action. Mesa stands alone from the same ol Fender, Marshall, Orange type of sound.
The Boogie aesthetic is Cali; it is hard, sharp, acidic, psychedelic.
But easy? No.

[atropos]

MK V's are a great example that if you can't dial in a tone you dig in about 2 minutes, you never will.

I had a sorta like - mostly hate relationship with mine...bought one when they first came out, owned it for about a year, and spent most of my time with it struggling unsuccessfully to get it to do what I wanted. I'd get a tone that I felt was workable, plug in the next day, and feel like I was back at square 1. Switching to EL tubes helped, but not nearly enough.

The only redeemable quality of it, to me, was II-C mode on channel 3. I finally sold it, and upgraded to the amp I wanted in the first place, and simply never looked back. I know there are folks that can certainly make them work, but it just wasn't for me.

[Given To Fly]

Try and get the Mark V manual and read it. Mesa's are extremely sensitive and non-intuitive if you are not familiar with their products. I have a Roadster and if I move the treble from 5.5 - 6 there is huge difference in tone. I would be lost without the Roadster manual and Mark series amps are even more bizarre. But when you finally get the tone you are after it makes it all worth it!

[Jeff Gilbert]

Greetings Earth Humans! I'm new here and this is my 1st post so cut me some slack if you will please.

About 3 years ago my guitar rig became the victim of piano casters rolled across the midi cable resulting in about 15 years of preamp/processor programming loss. To this date I have not been able to recreate the sound I was so accustom to hearing coming from my setup. I have since fell back to an old modified Marshall 30w Artist tube amp I had, and a couple of Marshall 1965 4x10 cabs. I've been using an old Boss multi effects pedal running through the loop and that just aint happening either.

I need something way more versitle than what I have, and I want effects that wont change my amp sound and that's why I'mm looking at the Mark V and the TC Elecronics G-System with a few pedals looped in the G-System. Due to the cost of buying everything at once I thought I'd start with the G-System and the Mark V head.

My question is if anyone has tried the Mark V through a 4x10 closed back cab? Mine is an 8 ohm 140w cab loaded with stock celestions.

[barryjohns]

Why in the world would you want to play through 10" speakers?

Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert

Greetings Earth Humans! I'm new here and this is my 1st post so cut me some slack if you will please.

About 3 years ago my guitar rig became the victim of piano casters rolled across the midi cable resulting in about 15 years of preamp/processor programming loss. To this date I have not been able to recreate the sound I was so accustom to hearing coming from my setup. I have since fell back to an old modified Marshall 30w Artist tube amp I had, and a couple of Marshall 1965 4x10 cabs. I've been using an old Boss multi effects pedal running through the loop and that just aint happening either.

I need something way more versitle than what I have, and I want effects that wont change my amp sound and that's why I'mm looking at the Mark V and the TC Elecronics G-System with a few pedals looped in the G-System. Due to the cost of buying everything at once I thought I'd start with the G-System and the Mark V head.

My question is if anyone has tried the Mark V through a 4x10 closed back cab? Mine is an 8 ohm 140w cab loaded with stock celestions.

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

BECAUSE THEY SOUND COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously you must have never played a cranked Fender Blackface Super Reverb. Or a Fender Tweedy Bassman. Or A Fender BF Vibrolux!!!!!!!!!!

Ten inch speakers RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially if they are old Jensens.

Oh I have my friend, but it's not something you would associate from a Boogie!

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

BECAUSE THEY SOUND COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously you must have never played a cranked Fender Blackface Super Reverb. Or a Fender Tweedy Bassman. Or A Fender BF Vibrolux!!!!!!!!!!

Ten inch speakers RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially if they are old Jensens.

I would also suggest you do your homework in a forum like this when replying. I wasn't criticizing you, just found it very confusing why you would be looking at a Mark V to be played through 10" speakers. It is massively uncommon.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

BECAUSE THEY SOUND COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously you must have never played a cranked Fender Blackface Super Reverb. Or a Fender Tweedy Bassman. Or A Fender BF Vibrolux!!!!!!!!!!

Ten inch speakers RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially if they are old Jensens.

Originally Posted by barryjohns

I would also suggest you do your homework in a forum like this when replying. I wasn't criticizing you, just found it very confusing why you would be looking at a Mark V to be played through 10" speakers. It is massively uncommon.

I'm not confused but I am the one that asked the question.
To answer yours, I like the 4x10 sound through what I am currently using and have previously used. I found the 10" sufficiently covers the frequency range of my guitar without walking into the bass players’ zone. It has worked well for me in the past. Since I don't have the coin to purchase everything at once, I was just curious if anyone had tried the MKV through 10's. I have my doubts that the 10"s will be the answer but at this point I really don't know and that why I asked if has been done. This is my research and I've only just begun.

Thanks for the responses so far

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert

I'm not confused but I am the one that asked the question.
To answer yours, I like the 4x10 sound through what I am currently using and have previously used. I found the 10" sufficiently covers the frequency range of my guitar without walking into the bass players’ zone. It has worked well for me in the past. Since I don't have the coin to purchase everything at once, I was just curious if anyone had tried the MKV through 10's. I have my doubts that the 10"s will be the answer but at this point I really don't know and that why I asked if has been done. This is my research and I've only just begun.

Thanks for the responses so far

I want you to be clear, my response originally was not to question the use of 10" speakers as it was to use them with a Mark V. I could have done a better job of clarifying.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Originally Posted by barryjohns

I want you to be clear, my response originally was not to question the use of 10" speakers as it was to use them with a Mark V. I could have done a better job of clarifying.

No biggy man. In your opinion, why would using 10" speakers with a Mark V be any different than any other configuration? They market the Mark V with a single 12 in the combo and I'm sure the 4x10 can handle the power unless I drive it to 11. My Hartke rig uses a 4x10 cab. I have a buddy that has some folded sub cabinets in a PA that is loaded with 10"s. I am just curious why it is something you would NOT associate from a Boogie?

I'm afraid that I will have to find out the hard way if it's a viable solution for me to give it a try. If it doesn't work well I guess I'll have a Mark V sitting around for a couple of months until I can get a cabinet that does work well. So far I haven't found any solid recomendations for cabinet choice with that head. I don't really like the idea of lugging a 4x12 and I already know I don't want a 1x2 combo. I have considered a 2x12 cab in a custom rack but again, I'm on a budget or sorts.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

And I see no problem with a 4x10, IF IT IS MADE FOR GUITAR. I thought Hartke made bass speakers which may not work quite as well especially if they have any appreciable roll-off.

The Hartke 4x10 is for my bass rig. I have 2 Marshall 4x10 cabs for my guitar rig and those are the ones I'm referring to using with the Mark V. They have the 35w 10" speakers that are the stock ones for the 1965a & b

[knifetheglitter]

Ill trade my dual rect for that!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Frodebro]

Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert

Greetings Earth Humans! I'm new here and this is my 1st post so cut me some slack if you will please.

About 3 years ago my guitar rig became the victim of piano casters rolled across the midi cable resulting in about 15 years of preamp/processor programming loss. To this date I have not been able to recreate the sound I was so accustom to hearing coming from my setup. I have since fell back to an old modified Marshall 30w Artist tube amp I had, and a couple of Marshall 1965 4x10 cabs. I've been using an old Boss multi effects pedal running through the loop and that just aint happening either.

I need something way more versitle than what I have, and I want effects that wont change my amp sound and that's why I'mm looking at the Mark V and the TC Elecronics G-System with a few pedals looped in the G-System. Due to the cost of buying everything at once I thought I'd start with the G-System and the Mark V head.

My question is if anyone has tried the Mark V through a 4x10 closed back cab? Mine is an 8 ohm 140w cab loaded with stock celestions.

I have a Mark V head AND a G System, and if versatility is what you're after, this is about as versatile as you're going to get without going back to a rack rig. I also have a Nova Drive, and using it along with the G/S and Mark V opens up a world of tonal possibilities.

As far as the 4x10 cab, I think that it would work well. There is so much you can do with the tone stacks and equalizers (graphic and preset) on the Mark V that you have a way better than average chance of getting that rig to sound really, really good.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Thanks guys, I'm gonna give it a try and see what it does. Next obstacle is finding a Mark V within a couple hundred miles of central Texas. So far it's looking like a mail order only option.

[Tag101]

Originally Posted by alexamk

I recently got one of these heads and have to say that I am extremely disappointed with the quality of sounds. Personally I think that my Mark IV is a much better amp.

I demoed one and hated it as well. I could not find a single tone I liked. I think the MK 4 sounds better too, but I liked my MK3 blue stripe more than my MK 4, so go figure.

[TL in TX]

Originally Posted by Tag101

I demoed one and hated it as well. I could not find a single tone I liked. I think the MK 4 sounds better too, but I liked my MK3 blue stripe more than my MK 4, so go figure.

The only Boogie I've held on to through the years is my old MKII C+ 50W. Even though I have lots of respect for Randall Smith as a designer, and businessman, I still think the MKII C+ was one of the best offerings Mesa ever had. Plus, it's easy to work on. I've modded mine to adjust the power tube bias. I love mine, and will never sell it.

However, I bought my first Two Rock a couple of years ago and have still not returned from that journey yet. A different tone world. I'm up to number four. ;-)

Man, so many people are making amps today.

Mesa's still hanging in there, and doing great!

I wish them the best!!

[Jolly_Rogers]

I had a .50 Caliber, never played a V though. The slightest adjustment on any control including the volume and tone pots on the guitar would drastically alter the entire tone and response. Especially when using two pickups together. So it will take longer to find sounds, but this is because there are more sounds to be found, and there is greater potential for finding unique sounds others haven't. The one tone i find that eludes Mesa is that of the Vox AC30, which itself i find to hold the tones of Marshall, Orange, and others depending on settings. Other Mesa's like the Stiletto take it even further with a large number of sounds available and a dizzying number of options. Unlike other amps like Engl or new Marshalls, Mesa offers a large amount of channels and controls without seeming to sacrifice any purity of circuit. It sounds and feels like single-channel purity (except the Rectifier, which is a clear compromise in sound).

Through patient adjustments, i found using the Mesa i could get the tone of any band or artist i wanted to, even those that don't use Mesa. If i became inpatient and didn't want to spend more than 2 minutes searching for a sound, i was not rewarded. I have tried many amps since then, and i always try to see if they can do things the Mesa could, but they never can, although they rarely do things the Mesa couldn't. There are lots of cools amps like Bogner, DeMeter and countless others, most for very high prices. I think the best value around is a used Mesa Mark series of any model.

Based on my experience with Mesa, and my knowledge of what the Mark V offers, i'd imagine the claims are true that it really is 9 amps in one. Obviously getting to know and adjusting 9 amps is going to be 9 times more difficult and time consuming than one amp. Also based on my experience with Mesa i'd assume the inability to get a pleasing sound to be on the user end. Sometimes when playing my Mesa, my friends just sit and listen, and are amazed at the sound coming out of the amp. The only sound i can't get is the Vox chime and shimmer.

My experience with other amps is that they offer slight variations of the same sound throughout the range of settings. With Mesa's i have found that depending on settings they can be 7 or 8 different amps - and that guitar knob settings have greater impact and are more useful than with other amps. The Rectifier i would say is more of a one-sound amp that is also easy to adjust to sound usuable, though i don't care for the sound.

[TL in TX]

Originally Posted by Jolly_Rogers

I think the best value around is a used Mesa Mark series of any model.

Indeed!!

With the MKII C+ in good condition holding it's value very respectably. It was truly one of the very best of the MK series.

Check out the resells, you maybe surprised.

If Randall produced a true, authentic reissue, built to the exact as possible standards, it might sell too well!!

[kennybro]

Originally Posted by DerekJ

I thought it was illegal in Chicago for a guitarist to own a Boogie amp w/o a flight case w/casters....tearing arms off = strong legislative pen.

I think it's actually illegal to own one without a licened roadie on board in most locations now.

[Jolly_Rogers]

Originally Posted by kennybro

I think it's actually illegal to own one without a licened roadie on board in most locations now.

The boogie also affects your car's gas mileage adversely

[foldback]

The first time I heard that Santana sustain I wanted a Boogie, it was the sound I'd been questing after, real tube sustain not transistor fuzz.

Everyone has opinions about tone and if a Boogie does not work for you that's understandable, they're very sensitive and powerful tone machines, unlike classic Fender amps that are hard to make sound bad.

I've had over 20 Boogies and currently I'm holding seven, three dual Rects (ones a TremoVerb), a couple of Studio 22 (my all around favs), a Nomad 2x12, and SOB.

I would love a Mark V to play with but I've got so many tones here now I can't justify owning anything else. The Mark V is really an amazing piece in my opinion, it's basically got all the classic Boogie sounds in one box, but it's a complex gadget to set up.

As someone else mentioned Boogie amps have VERY active tone controls, you need to move them carefully. Where you sit relative to the speaker makes a huge difference also.

My favorite cabs to use with my Boogies are Marshall 4x12, I like the stock Celestions and the V-30 loaded cabs.

Lately I've been experimenting with a Carvin single 12 closed back cabinet loaded with a stock Carvin 12" guitar speaker, I'm blown away by the awesome midrange tone of this speaker.

I've also got a custom Alnico Weber 12 in a homebrew cab (sealed box), that sounds really sweet on my Strat.

As for the SOB, it's a much maligned amp, mine was built in 1988 (signed by Mike inside), mine is almost entirely point to point wiring with a very tiny little circuit board. These amps were built to use up excess parts as the company grew quickly into a retail supplier in the late 80's, moving away from all custom builds to some stock offerings with custom options.

As for power, I've played small rooms with my modded Epiphone Junior (5 watts) through a 4x12, larger places with a studio 22 driving a 4x12, always loud enough for me. If you play outdoors or somewhere huge that's where the extra power really comes in handy.

Also, a 100 watt top will always sound like it has more bass than a lower power head, even at the same volume, I love headroom.

There is not one tone machine that does it all, take your time and use your ears to find what works best for you.

Good music to all.