Nut and saddle material?

[wilcodeltafourO]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

My Martins tell me everytime they sing to me!
VP

Well that does it for me. Who needs any sort of explanation to support an argument when Pete's guitars sing like they do. Must be true.

What about a little explanation as to why the nut has made such a difference? People really do want to know why this is.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by wilcodeltafourO

Well that does it for me. Who needs any sort of explanation to support an argument when Pete's guitars sing like they do. Must be true.

What about a little explanation as to why the nut has made such a difference? People really do want to know why this is.

Because bone is better than corian for nuts on guitars.
VP

[wilcodeltafourO]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Because bone is better than corian for nuts on guitars.
VP

Why?

How does it effect the tone once the note is fretted?

What energy is interacting with the nut to influence the standing wave set up in the string?

In what way is the nut imparting it's sound to the fretted string?

How does the tension of the string induce the nut to change the shape of the fretted string?

These are all questions that I'm sure you can answer for us.

[TalcumMclaren]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Because bone is better than corian for nuts on guitars.
VP

Pete, I would like your view on why corian is better as a nut material. I'm thinking about changing mine. Would it make a big difference? I still can't see how it would matter fretted notes but I guess you have more experience with this than others.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by wilcodeltafourO

Why?

How does it effect the tone once the note is fretted?

What energy is interacting with the nut to influence the standing wave set up in the string?

In what way is the nut imparting it's sound to the fretted string?

How does the tension of the string induce the nut to change the shape of the fretted string?

These are all questions that I'm sure you can answer for us.

I think I found an appropriate link for you Mutt! Guitar Nut? - Guitar For Beginners & Beyond Forum
I hope you can learn something.
VP

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

Pete, I would like your view on why corian is better as a nut material. I'm thinking about changing mine. Would it make a big difference? I still can't see how it would matter fretted notes but I guess you have more experience with this than others.

Better than what?
VP

[TalcumMclaren]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Better than what?
VP

You said bone is better. why? I was going to go with corian.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

You said bone is better. why? I was going to go with corian.

Go with Corian for your kitchen counter and sink!
VP

[TalcumMclaren]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Go with Corian for your kitchen counter and sink!
VP

Well I don't know. After all this chat and you sending pm's to me about this muttley person I dropped by homerecording.com today to see if he was from there. Yes he is and I had a brief chat. It seems you are banned there for posting continuously about nonsense like this. It's beginning to make a bit more sense now.

He advises I just stay out of your way unless you start messing up threads. You are now on my ignore list.

homerecording.com looks like a cool place these days by the way for anyone interested. Tons of good info there.

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

Well I don't know. After all this chat and you sending pm's to me about this muttley person I dropped by homerecording.com today to see if he was from there. Yes he is and I had a brief chat. It seems you are banned there for posting continuously about nonsense like this. It's beginning to make a bit more sense now.

He advises I just stay out of your way unless you start messing up threads. You are now on my ignore list.

homerecording.com looks like a cool place these days by the way for anyone interested. Tons of good info there.

Nice try Muttley600! You cant fool me. I was banned there because you and your profane lynchmob would not leave me alone for a minute, you had to challenge every post I made, just like you have been doing here with all your aliases.
VP

[muttley]

lol @ VP

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by muttley

lol @ VP

Hi Paul or Muttley600 or Wilcodelta40 or TalcumMaclaren or TalcumX or PenguinMuttley or GoldBond or whatever else aliases you have,
I have been doing well staying away from your constant nitpicking and harassing. You must be really insecure to have to naysay everything I post. I feel sorry for you, you must be an empty person. I guess I missed these last 3 posts by your penguin alias. I have been so busy I am considering moving to a bigger location in the middle of a very busy main street. Why dont you stop in here every now and then and at least pretend to care what these members have to say. It was obvious you only came here with your aliases just to harrass me, I am flattered.
Victory Pete

[Robobaby]

I don't know who you are but the url you posted in 'support' of your claim has a broken link to another site and the last comment posted likens people who think there is a difference in nut material to (quote) 'cork sniffers'.

So yeah. What is it that you are smoking exactly, because I gotta get me some of that good shit for mah crack pipe?

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Robobaby

I don't know who you are but the url you posted in 'support' of your claim has a broken link to another site and the last comment posted likens people who think there is a difference in nut material to (quote) 'cork sniffers'.

So yeah. What is it that you are smoking exactly, because I gotta get me some of that good shit for mah crack pipe?

Hi
Who are you asking this question to?
VP

[Robobaby]

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

Hi
Who are you asking this question to?
VP

You.

Originally Posted by Victory Pete

I think I found an appropriate link for you Mutt! Guitar Nut? - Guitar For Beginners & Beyond Forum
I hope you can learn something.
VP

[Victory Pete]

Originally Posted by Robobaby

You.

I dont smoke. I am not responsible for the information in that link. I have stated my opinion on the subject. Sorry if I upset you.
VP

[tyguy335]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

Nut material is out of no importance once the string is fretted. Too many different types of guitar and saddle to make a call on that one without narrowing it down a bit. Bit of a dumb question really.

It is of utmost importance!Actually the nut and saddle material sets the tone(brightness for the whole guitar)!Look at it this way:if one is playing a mix of open and fretted notes,you don't want the fretted note bright and the open note dead(say nut made of soft material)!The nut actually sets the tone for the whole guitar in the same way the bass strings on a set of strings set the tone for the whole set!D'Adarrio's and Ernie Ball's sound different as a pure nickel set and nickel wrap only set sound amazingly different.The three unwound strings are EXACTLY the same in these sets but sound different due to the different bass strings!!Lots of psychology goin' on with different materials.

[tyguy335]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

Well, the mysterious thing is that behind the fret after the string has been fretted the string isn't moving. In fact in many cases it is in contact with other frets on the fret board. If it did vibrate it would setup sympathetic vibrations which would be quite distracting.

How can a string that isn't moving effect way a guitar sounds?

The string does vibrate behind the fretted note and nut,big time and the repairmans term for it is BACKLASHING!Noticeable buzz if neck is set too straight especially on 24 3/4 scale length.The string should never be in contact with these frets between nut and played fret!You can't see it with the naked eye but there's clearance of 1,000 2,000 inch or so.

[tyguy335]

Originally Posted by TalcumMclaren

Is it the tension in the string that gives it its tone? This is confusing I always thought it was the way it vibrated and the relationship it has with the harmonic series. I guess I need to do some more reading up.

The tension gives it a "note' doesn't it?Changing the tension changes the tuning!

[tyguy335]

Originally Posted by tyguy335

It is of utmost importance!Actually the nut and saddle material sets the tone(brightness for the whole guitar)!Look at it this way:if one is playing a mix of open and fretted notes,you don't want the fretted note bright and the open note dead(say nut made of soft material)!The nut actually sets the tone for the whole guitar in the same way the bass strings on a set of strings set the tone for the whole set!D'Adarrio's and Ernie Ball's sound different as a pure nickel set and nickel wrap only set sound amazingly different.The three unwound strings are EXACTLY the same in these sets but sound different due to the different bass strings!!Lots of psychology goin' on with different materials.

There are no dumb questions just dumb answers!

[inwardheel]

So any chance that this thread might lead to some suggestions on possible saddle materials?? Or nut

What kinda bone we talkin about? Anyone have something out of the ordinary.
I'm specifically talking about acoustics

[mcgruff]

With my own acoustic, swapping to bone from plastic didn't change the fundamental character of the guitar but it did make it a slightly better version of the same guitar. I think it depends on the instrument. Some might benefit, some might not show any difference but saddles are cheap and easy to make so it's always worth experimenting. Buy a handful of bone blanks and keep the original as a reference.

A saddle must have a perfectly flat bottom (or possibly a tiny, 2 degree or so angle to balance string torque). Frets.com has a lot of info on this kind of thing.

Check out Bob Colosi's site for a wide range of esoteric saddle materials.

Nuts and bridge pins don't matter IMO, although some people might disagree. Differences in bridge pin mass could conceivably have an effect on tone given that low-mass in the vibrating top is a crucial factor in good acoustic tone - a good luthier will weigh out bridge pieces to the gram and is on a constant quest for the lightest, stiffest spruces known to man.

[Macky]

Originally Posted by inwardheel

So any chance that this thread might lead to some suggestions on possible saddle materials?? Or nut

What kinda bone we talkin about? Anyone have something out of the ordinary.
I'm specifically talking about acoustics

I use "Delrin" it came recommended a few years ago. Its also used for pick material.
You can get it off ebay, may need to ask for particular sheet thickness maybe 3mm and 8mm.
Polyoxymethylene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A.K.A. POM
* High abrasion resistance
* Low coefficient of friction
* High heat resistance
* Good electrical and dielectric properties
* Low water absorption
---------
On the subjectivity of the nut material being affective e.g.using barre chords. I,m sure player and instrument determine a lot of the sound and every element must come into it. I recall a science program showing just how much U2 Edge`s forearm bones affect his sound. They showed the vibrations of his forearm..kooky stuff.
Anyhow Poll results are Yes 21.....No 2

[tyron.a1406]

Yes it makes a difference, for instance if you had to use pine (stupid example but still valid) you'd get too much warmth and loose sustain, and if you used brass then it'll be over bright but you'd have massive attack and awesome sustain. What people used to use for the nut and bridge was ivory. If you can get somebody to take a goat horn and make a bridge out of it, that'd be your best option. But FYI changing the nut is mostly not necessary.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Gearslutz.com

[inwardheel]

Aw man now I want a goat horn saddle or deer antler. You think old pianos would have ivory?

[Victory Pete]

Thanks for the replies guys, great reading. I find bridge pins do make a big difference also. I did a simple test with my Martin D12-28. On the small E strings I replaced one of the original plastic pins with ebony. Immediately I noticed more volume and a brighter sound. I think everything in a guitars construction contributes to its unique tone, volume and sustain.

VP