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What wire for the guitar rig?
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Jax
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#1
31st March 2007
Old 31st March 2007
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What wire for the guitar rig?

So I've got a 2x12 cab hooked up to a Randall RT 2/50, which is hooked up to a Randall RM4.

I think the wiring could be better suited to the application, because I have 4 studio patch cables connecting the preamp to the poweramp, and one connecting the poweramp to the speaker cab. That wire is Belden 1800F (110 ohm AES) which works fine, but I get the feeling it would sound better if using thicker gauge stuff.

What wire would you guitarslutz recommend?

Is it generally best to use the same gauge and make of wire throughout the rig?

Would silver be better than copper, or does it not really matter with a guitar rig?

Thanks in advance!

I'm still learning about the world of guitar playing, and lovin' it!
#2
1st April 2007
Old 1st April 2007
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Mogami 2524 is a good cable to use.

But between power amp and speaker you should use proper speaker cable! Using ordinary cable can harm your amp!!!

/megl
#3
1st April 2007
Old 1st April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
So I've got a 2x12 cab hooked up to a Randall RT 2/50, which is hooked up to a Randall RM4.

I think the wiring could be better suited to the application, because I have 4 studio patch cables connecting the preamp to the poweramp, and one connecting the poweramp to the speaker cab. That wire is Belden 1800F (110 ohm AES) which works fine, but I get the feeling it would sound better if using thicker gauge stuff.

What wire would you guitarslutz recommend?

Is it generally best to use the same gauge and make of wire throughout the rig?

Would silver be better than copper, or does it not really matter with a guitar rig?

Thanks in advance!

I'm still learning about the world of guitar playing, and lovin' it!
Do not use 1800F as speaker cable. It's only 24 Awg and shielded. Go with something unshielded and depending on length 12-18 Awg. It won't hurt to go with 12 Awg.
Jax
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#4
1st April 2007
Old 1st April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megl View Post
Mogami 2524 is a good cable to use.

But between power amp and speaker you should use proper speaker cable! Using ordinary cable can harm your amp!!!

/megl
Ok, I'll be changing out the Belden with some speaker cable today! Thanks for the tip.

Would you care to elaborate about why ordinary cable can harm the amp?
Jax
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#5
1st April 2007
Old 1st April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grindx View Post
Do not use 1800F as speaker cable. It's only 24 Awg and shielded. Go with something unshielded and depending on length 12-18 Awg. It won't hurt to go with 12 Awg.
Thanks for the tip, but can you explain why the length matters in relation to the gauge? Also, why would unshielded be a better choice?
Jax
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#6
2nd April 2007
Old 2nd April 2007
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Ok, so there's two reasonably good answers, but as I often find, alot of people who bother to answer threads only give half an answer.

Anybody want to tell me how thinner AWG cable might damage a guitar amp?

or

Why the length of the cable matters in relation to its gauge? I know why it would matter in much longer cable runs, but this is just a short cable hooking the poweramp to the speakers.

or

Why would unshielded cable be a better choice for guitar amp interconnects?

Thanks!
#7
7th April 2007
Old 7th April 2007
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Use copper no need for the fancy stuff it wont make a difference on a guitar amp. I use a thicker guage speaker cable, most speaker cable is thicker anyways. I made mine with heavy duty switchcraft ends. I use mogami instrument cables and speaker cables. All brands will be fine. Belden and mogami are awesome and easy to solder. Canare is nice for live for the shield is heavy duty but a pain to undo and prep for solder.

Speaker cable has a different load. You can fry your power amp and or blow your speakers. Never turn the amp on without a speaker cable plugged in as well. Some newer amps are cool with it but older amps can fry without a speaker plugged in. I hope this helps
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#8
7th April 2007
Old 7th April 2007
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I would like to be reminded of why speaker cable is always unshielded...I think i once knew for certain. Might be in the Yamaha guide.

I think it has to do with the relative current levels...in speaker wire, you have enough current that won't be amplified so it doesn't need shielding. Furthermore, the shield wire bringing current back will have different loading characteristics from the core wire sending it...and that can be a problem somehow. You want two identical wires going and coming at that level of current.

But I've forgotten why and I hope a techie will stop by.
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#9
7th April 2007
Old 7th April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
Use copper no need for the fancy stuff it wont make a difference on a guitar amp. I use a thicker guage speaker cable, most speaker cable is thicker anyways. I made mine with heavy duty switchcraft ends. I use mogami instrument cables and speaker cables. All brands will be fine. Belden and mogami are awesome and easy to solder. Canare is nice for live for the shield is heavy duty but a pain to undo and prep for solder.
Copper it is. Just waiting for somebody to say "get the Zoalla silver, it's waaay better." lol

I still hate soldering, but there's a Guitar Center about 2 miles away so I'll just pay 2-3x more than they're worth and buy some pre-made stuff. I think they still carry some pimpy looking Mogami.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
Speaker cable has a different load. You can fry your power amp and or blow your speakers. Never turn the amp on without a speaker cable plugged in as well. Some newer amps are cool with it but older amps can fry without a speaker plugged in. I hope this helps
I know enough to never fire up the power amp without speakers or at least a proper dummy load connected. I guess I've been lucky so far with the amp using thin studio cable. It sounds good and doesn't seem to be choking or burning out the x-former, but there's no need to risk it.

What do you mean by the speaker cable load? For example, my Belden 1800F studio cable is 110 ohm, which I will stop using as guitar speaker cable. What would be the optimum load for the output of the poweramp to the speakers? I have a pair of 8 ohm Celestions (V30 and G12H30) wired in Series for 16 ohms.

Also, I tried a pair of TS cables momentarily, but the speakers just oscillated and pumped and the amp didn't work, so I shut it down quickly. I'm not sure why the TS didn't work.
Jax
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#10
7th April 2007
Old 7th April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I would like to be reminded of why speaker cable is always unshielded...I think i once knew for certain. Might be in the Yamaha guide.

I think it has to do with the relative current levels...in speaker wire, you have enough current that won't be amplified so it doesn't need shielding. Furthermore, the shield wire bringing current back will have different loading characteristics from the core wire sending it...and that can be a problem somehow. You want two identical wires going and coming at that level of current.

But I've forgotten why and I hope a techie will stop by.
Yeah, this would be good to know. I'll try and get this moved to the Geekslutz forum.
#11
7th April 2007
Old 7th April 2007
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#12
9th April 2007
Old 9th April 2007
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Kimber 4VS - I recently sent all of my speaker cables to a guitar amp maker and this was the one he chose.
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#13
9th April 2007
Old 9th April 2007
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On the instrument side, I prefer the Monster Cable Jazz. I've had countless cables over the years, and it does seem more transparent and detailed than others. That said, it's way expensive, and the difference between it and a run-of-the-mill Belden is pretty subtle. The difference is more of a minor tweak than a dramatic change. There's certainly room to prefer an ordinary cable. I'd recommend holding off on auditioning expensive cables until everything else in your setup is approaching perfect.
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9th April 2007
Old 9th April 2007
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Kafka - Monster is decent cable (although overpriced and overhyped, just like the premade Mogami), but I don't buy their stuff because they file all kinds of frivolous lawsuits, saying they have to protect their trademark. Check out the list and tell me the government shouldn't put a lock on Monster's legal practices.

Gearslutz used to have a big thread about this, but the search engine didn't find it.

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?q...&pn2=&cop=&cn=
Jax
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9th April 2007
Old 9th April 2007
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Found this one on Gearslutz after a few minutes. I'd like to see another boycott of Monster products, even a short-lived one (like the last one) would be ok.

Monster Cable plays dirty
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9th April 2007
Old 9th April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
Kafka - Monster is decent cable (although overpriced and overhyped, just like the premade Mogami), but I don't buy their stuff because they file all kinds of frivolous lawsuits, saying they have to protect their trademark. Check out the list and tell me the government shouldn't put a lock on Monster's legal practices.

Gearslutz used to have a big thread about this, but the search engine didn't find it.

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?q...&pn2=&cop=&cn=
I don't want to thread-jack or get into a big discussion on the subject of trademarks, but I have had some experience with the subject. US law requires a company to actively defend it's trademarks, upon risk of losing them if they don't. Ironically, the reason for this is to free up unused trademarks, and to take the gov't out of the business of policing them. The result is sometimes a rash of questionable lawsuits. How a company chooses to defend it's trademarks really depends on their lawyer's advice. Sometimes a lawyer will advise that a strong track-record of sending cease-and-desist letters is sufficient. Other times, they advise that lawsuits must be filed. However, if a trademark holder were to ignore an infringement in an area of business relevant to theirs, they could face a real possibility of losing their trademark.

Some companies are quite reasonable on the subject. Others take an approach that is more draconian. I'm not offering any opinion on Monster's actions here. You are entitled to your own opinion on any given company, it's actions, and how to respond to it as a consumer. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not offering advice - just my understanding of the issue.

Last edited by kafka; 9th April 2007 at 10:02 PM.. Reason: clarify language
Jax
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#17
29th April 2007
Old 29th April 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megl View Post
Mogami 2524 is a good cable to use.

But between power amp and speaker you should use proper speaker cable! Using ordinary cable can harm your amp!!!

/megl
Just an update to let you all know what your helpful advice got me:

I got an 18' Mogami 2524 instrument cable since starting the thread, and I'm pleased with the improvement in sound. 2524 is not very flexible and it likes to tangle itself up, but it's worth it. If I leave it out in the sun before I play, it's no problem. lol

I also bought some 14 gauge speaker wire connecting the terminal to the speakers and the speakers to each other. Nothing special, just oxygen free wire from the electronics store. Together, the Mogami and new wiring add some clarity and a thicker bottom than before.

I'm planning to have Redco make me a few 14 gauge cables to go between the poweramp and 1/4" speaker jack. The low budget Livewire being used now will be replaced by a couple 4 footers and a 12 footer for an extension cab.

Thanks for the advice all! I'm loving my guitar sound more than ever.

Last edited by Jax; 29th April 2007 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: better grammar
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