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#151
23rd April 2012
Old 23rd April 2012
  #151
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Coincidentally, one of my guitar player buds somehow struck up an acquaintance with the owner of a Chinese factory. On a lark he decided that he wanted a Vinnie Vincent styled V.....so he measured up a friends and asked the guy if he could make him one. Essentially the guy told him that for 700.00 they would make any electric guitar as long as they could get the CNC numbers. The found the dimensions online, a three weeks later a guitar was delivered.....flawless.

The Chinese can make a fine instrument if they have the incentive to do so. Underestimating Asians has gotten this country in trouble more than once.
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#152
24th April 2012
Old 24th April 2012
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
The Chinese can make a fine instrument if they have the incentive to do so. Underestimating Asians has gotten this country in trouble more than once.

You phrased it wrong....It should be the following...

The Chinese can rip off any American company they want without consequence.
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#153
24th April 2012
Old 24th April 2012
  #153
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Actually, both posts are correct. I agree with you that if the Chinese had to conceptualize and design a great electric guitar it would take them years to get it right. Or maybe never. And I am just as unhappy as you that copyright laws are totally disrespected to the point that so much copying is rampant.

However, it is also true that the Chinese can make a fine instrument if the parameters are set, of course by someone else's design. But to deny that they can do it is silly and dangerous.

So, I really don't disagree with you. But in MY mind, the real problem is that the American public, which IMHOP has become fat and greedy, is more interested in a cheap price than protecting its own economic well being. And of course the politicians have enabled that mindset.

We need to accept that we should live with a little less quantity and a little more quality. The public needs to be educated that supporting this type of behavior hurts our national stability. It also wouldn't hurt for the American worker to realize that if they want to have jobs in this country they might have to work for a tad less to compete.

Keep in mind that if WE didn't buy those Chinese guitars, those factories would be making something else. The Chinese practice capitalism better than we do,. In many ways, we create our own problems.
#154
24th April 2012
Old 24th April 2012
  #154
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Original Les Paul isn't that expensive. I'd never want a copy version. American made last very long time and it's worth the price.
#155
25th April 2012
Old 25th April 2012
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
It also wouldn't hurt for the American worker to realize that if they want to have jobs in this country they might have to work for a tad less to compete.
The Chinese practice capitalism better than we do,. In many ways, we create our own problems.

OT: no one should start 'working for less'. Doing so is a no win situation...if you've been part of any local music scenes you'd plainly see that the MaoMart approach to music economics has ruined a musicians opportunity to make a living.

Working for less devalues the art.


As for the Chinese prowess for capitalism....is that suppose to be a joke? How flicking hard is it when you have a cowed workforce transitioning from agricultural bases to industrial...and who will work for the bare minimum
In a economy that allows extremely low income people to survive?

Talk about the Chinese abilities when their economy crashes under the dual weight of oranized labor startups and disrupted market sources....

But you know...in a way you are right. We should stop buying cheap Chinese
Audio and go with Expensive Austrian and German engineering...and while we are at it we should crush Japanese purchases too.
#156
25th April 2012
Old 25th April 2012
  #156
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Dude....I am not agreeing with the Chinese method of achieving the goal. And frankly I think its just a matter of time before the Chinese worked...who sees what the outside world has regardless of how hard they try to censure the internet there, will demand more money for their labor. My friends who manufacture there, and I have several, bave told that this is already happening.

No one wants to live with less, but the fact is if WE want to save our jobs, we have to support our products. Which means they cost a bit more. Which means we might live with a little less. Personally I think we are so wasteful that if we just learned not waste so much, we wouldn't even feel the difference.

This is common sense....not political nonsense. We cab win this battle the way we always have, with determination and a tad of sacrifice. Its bad to be dpendant on other countries, we should have solved the oil issue 30 years ago....but for reasons way to many to discuss we didn't. This is the next wave and If we are going to be the greatest nation on earth in the next 30, we might have to bite the bullet a bit now.
#157
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #157
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"No one wants to live with less, but the fact is if WE want to save our jobs, we have to support our products. Which means they cost a bit more. Which means we might live with a little less. Personally I think we are so wasteful that if we just learned not waste so much, we wouldn't even feel the difference."

economic patriotism is good thats sur,but behind the word it is too what we call economic protectionism its what the URSS where doing before collapsing,money dont get farmed or grow up on tree it just move from a point to a point,the world work like the old saying "misery for the rich,happiness for the poor" its like a balance the third world in a side the first world in the other side,when a side go up the other go down,the moral is "i buy from you, you buy from me",thats the power of the capitalism,imagine europe boycoting american products, then this crisis will look like a vacation if they do that,for the china model thats another story its an exception they are unbalancing the economy,not only rich country are suffering everyone is,what a hell 1.4billion why so much people,
#158
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
No one wants to live with less, but the fact is if WE want to save our jobs, we have to support our products. Which means they cost a bit more. Which means we might live with a little less. Personally I think we are so wasteful that if we just learned not waste so much, we wouldn't even feel the difference.
??? So you are really saying buy locally to support US people - and that local products are more expensive so we 'live with less'????


Quote:
This is common sense....not political nonsense. We cab win this battle the way we always have, with determination and a tad of sacrifice.
Wealthy people don't 'sacrifice' a dam thing to 'win the battle'. You've bought into the noise and are doomed to suffer because of it.
#159
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #159
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I never said that wealthy people shouldn't take up their share. I totally support the Buffet rule that the wealthy should be paying more.

As to the rest of it. Yes american made goods cost more. Hopefully we make them worth it. But are you denying that there are a zillion foreign workers happy to get 5 percent of what we get paid to build products that compete with us???

And that there are companies like Walmart that have ?ZERO problem forcing American companies to offshore their production so that Walmart can stock its stores with goods cheaper than the Mom and Pop that tries to support US????

If you are denying that, you got some studying to do.
#160
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post

And that there are companies like Walmart that have ?ZERO problem forcing American companies to offshore their production so that Walmart can stock its stores with goods cheaper than the Mom and Pop that tries to support US????

If you are denying that, you got some studying to do.
If American companies stopped cowering to MaoMart - and American's stopped
Being so short sighted about the economics of companies that screw the economy to make profit - it would be a different story.

And musician's and recording geeks should stop buying Chinese clone gear
Ie...Mackie, Berhringer etc....and focus the economic power on US manufacturers - which would in turn change the landscape.
#161
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #161
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I have a mid 90's LP studio and I'm not too happy with it ....what would be a step up from this guys ? Not interested in looks as it will be a studio work horse ..the choice is mind boggling TBH
#162
30th April 2012
Old 30th April 2012
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
I have a mid 90's LP studio and I'm not too happy with it ....what would be a step up from this guys ? Not interested in looks as it will be a studio work horse ..the choice is mind boggling TBH
maybe this? if you like flashy guitar,i do,and the price look more than reasonable wildcustomguitars
#163
23rd February 2013
Old 23rd February 2013
  #163
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A friend has a Chinese Gibson J200 (has the Gibson on the headstock etc), and I have a real Gibson J200. He was totally enthused about the bargain he got until he played it alongside my genuine Gibson and the novelty wore off quickly. The real J200 is a tone machine- big, warm, even tone, the fake sounds like a thin toy guitar, even with its jumbo body. Some of the Chinese electrics are quite good for the money, but this is the 6th Chinese acoustic I have listened to, and they are all horrible.
#164
23rd February 2013
Old 23rd February 2013
  #164
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If you're looking at getting a Les Paul style guitar, then I'd definitely reccomend checking out Agile guitars (specifically the AL models)
For the price, which is a steal...they definitely look and sound the part and I'd believe could give Gibson LP's a run for their money
#165
1st March 2013
Old 1st March 2013
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@39 View Post
A friend has a Chinese Gibson J200 (has the Gibson on the headstock etc), and I have a real Gibson J200. He was totally enthused about the bargain he got until he played it alongside my genuine Gibson and the novelty wore off quickly. The real J200 is a tone machine- big, warm, even tone, the fake sounds like a thin toy guitar, even with its jumbo body. Some of the Chinese electrics are quite good for the money, but this is the 6th Chinese acoustic I have listened to, and they are all horrible.
I'm sure I can make that guitar sound good by a campfire. Im sure I'd want to throw it IN the campfire after 20 minutes.
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#166
11th March 2013
Old 11th March 2013
  #166
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I've imported quite a few Chinese versions over the years. Some were better than others. My two strats are killer. My Ibanez Jem V is okay. Pickups need to be changed though. Same for the Ouija Kirk Hammett ESP. I play my them with the Floyd Rose disengaged. They never served to keep them in tune anyway. They do a better job with Strat copies than Les Paul copies though. If the neck's bent on a Les Paul there's nothing I can do to fix it. Fenders have more leeway in that area. I also end up changing all the crappy tuning heads and installing locking Grovers.
#167
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
  #167
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Wow, this discussion went very deep. Thought I'd add my two cents.

A few years ago I bought an Austin LP Copy, new for 160 including shipping on eBay. Put some new 50 buck pickups in it and new tuners. I really like the guitar - plays and sounds great - especially for the dough. I have played a bunch of Epis and a few studios and this one blows those away. I also played a reissue gold top LP that was 1800 and the Gibby was very obviously a much better instrument. As it should be for the price difference.

A couple years ago I applied for a job at Gibson and did a bunch of research. An interesting web site to check out is Glass Door. Former and current employees voice their opinions about working for Gibson. There are many stories about guitars coming off the line with problems but the supervisors push them through anyway, even though they should be corrected. Instructions come from the CEO on down.

I have experienced very uneven QC when trying various Gibsons - especially acoustics. I've been on the search for a J45 for years and found one in twenty to be very good, and very expensive. A lot of the ones I played had glue slop, and one had a bridge coming up.

We are in a capitalist country in a global economy and sometimes in these discussions
The argument becomes over simplified.
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#168
20th March 2013
Old 20th March 2013
  #168
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If the instrument looks great, feels good in my hands, pleases my ears - then it doesn't really matter where it's made. Of course an american product may give something more to the "feeling" (to know that it is probaply made the best possible way), but that something equals well to the financial relief, when You buy an asian product.

For me, fenders have always felt beter than LP's, but now I have two of them that I like. One is a real cheapo (harley benton goldtop with p90). It just had to be adjusted right. The other one is a "Fibson" - propably -i dunno. The seller said its a fake, but I dont know and actually I don't care.

A friend of mine ones decided to buy a new american les paul. When he got it - there wasn't any sound coming out of it. He returned it and got a new one, but that one was not as good looking as the first one was. He returned it and bought himself an epiphone...
#169
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #169
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TexasCat is offline
I will never understand how people defend US companies that obviously suck! If Gibson was a well run company that had consistently high quality products and treated their employees with respect it would be different. But that is simply not the case.

They build shoddy instruments that require a Luthier to finish and the treat their employees like crap!

#170
28th March 2013
Old 28th March 2013
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
I will never understand how people defend US companies that obviously suck! If Gibson was a well run company that had consistently high quality products and treated their employees with respect it would be different. But that is simply not the case.

They build shoddy instruments that require a Luthier to finish and the treat their employees like crap!
Guess you just love the better treatment employees in China are getting, eh?

As far as shoddy wannabes, I'm waiting for the Behringer Les Paul

#171
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #171
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guitarsling is offline
chinese guitars

These guitars have been around for years, at least they are built better and sound better now. Al guitars are copied to some extent Gibson really can.t do anything about it. I have a Tradition Les Paul copy and it sounds and plays as good as my American made Gibson.
#172
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #172
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How much hell did Fender put up with, and they are still doing it, from China and Mexico!
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