Tuning 3 half steps down...

[FFTT]

I've been tuning my Epiphone down to B for quite some time now and it works fine
as long as you give the neck time to adjust to the change in tension.
Just keep a close eye on the neck and adjust if necessary.

I use D'Addario Heavys, but you can also try
buying 2 sets of strings, using the best of a 7 string set and a six string set to suite your needs.

You could also try to special order a dozen or so low B stings and just use standard lighter strings for E A D F# B

Both methods allow you to keep relatively standard tension on your neck.

Works like a charm.

[AlexLakis]

Thanks for the reply, FFTT!

Yeah, I've been using an SG model tuned down for a while now, it makes out all right.

The only problem is that I have to play like a friggin pansy to avoid bending the strings. Kinda ironic for heavy music, eh? I'll be rockin' out, going crazy, and my songwriting partner will be like "Stop playing so hard, you're bending the strings out of tune!"

"STOP PLAYING SO HARD?! You're the one with black studded leather bracelets and tattoos!"

So, yeah, I'm basically trying to set it up with 13s (or heavier, if it'll take) so I can rock out proper-style and not have to play the guitar like a nancy.

I just recently changed strings and adjusted my Les Paul for these duties. Some frets are buzzing, tho, and the strings are still flapping around a bit. I'll keep re-adjusting it, I just didn't know if I was fighting a futile battle or not, ya know?

Thanks again for your input!

[FFTT]

See how the bottom 6 of a 7 string set sounds and feels.

Of course you'll need some intonation adjustment here and there, but it's
cheaper than buying a new baritone guitar.

Haven't tried them yet buy I intend to try an Elixir Baritone .012-.068 set on my
AF105 soon.

[CrankyRayHanky]

Zakk Wylde GHS strings are perfect for this
10-60
lo 11-70

The tone is killer, don't flap away with lighter gauges

[octatonic]

Considered a baritone guitar?

The longer scale length is great for this.
Or look for a Fender VI bass.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by CrankyRayHanky

Zakk Wylde GHS strings are perfect for this
10-60
lo 11-70

The tone is killer, don't flap away with lighter gauges

Thank you, Zakk, for, yet again, kicking ass! thumbsup

Originally Posted by richmondjames

Considered a baritone guitar?

The longer scale length is great for this.
Or look for a Fender VI bass.

Dude, the Fender VI bass looks awesome. BADASS.

However, I almost lament to subject such a piece of great vintage gear to such a sacriligious tuning, even tho it was what it was made for...Oh, the irony...

Plus, as an engineer, I would be reluctant to incorporate such a piece in a "guitar" role, and then have a bass guitar "underneath" it. Oh, the humanity.

Perhaps my inherent contempt for this tuning is clouding my sight. I shall research these "baritone" guitars. It seems like a good idea (in the house of a bad idea.)

Does anybody have a particular baritone guitar they like/would recommend? For those using them, has the response been (from either studio work or live sound) that it has just been an incoherent muddy mess or what?

Thanks for the responses, guys!

[octatonic]

I sure do.
Build one from warmoth parts or slap a warmoth bari neck on a regular Fender (I prefer Tele's with humbuckers).

Mixing bari with a regular bass isn't much different to mixing guitars- it is all in the arrangement with a bit of EQ. I will often band pass the high pass the Bari around 80hz and low pass the bass- but there are no fixed rules.

Have a listen to anything by Strapping Young Lad and/or Devin Townsend to see how to mix low tuned guitars with bass- the production is incredible.

[AlexLakis]

Thanks, James!

The Warmoth looks cool, I've always wanted to build my own guitar too. I might buy the body as well, I have a Squier strat and a Mexistrat lying around, but I kinda like the Mexi and I dunno how I'd feel about putting a neck that is worth almost three times as much as the actual guitar on there.

The bass we use is a 5 string (it's my songwriting partner's.) I guess I'm just running into the limitations of my ears, because I have a difficult time discerning notes when they get that low. Add a boatload of distortion, and it gets even harder for me. You can't argue that the mix lends itself to being more muddy by design; I have made successful mixes in this tuning in the past, tho, and this kind of tuning does have it's place in this kind of songwriting. I usually high pass/low pass like you mentioned as well.

I'll check out the artists you mentioned, thanks again!

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I guess I'm just running into the limitations of my ears, because I have a difficult time discerning notes when they get that low.

Treat your room. :-)

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

Treat your room. :-)

Oh, it's treated (about $500 worth of rigid fiberglass, which is A LOT of rigid fiberglass.) Ethan helped me out, and it's sounding fantastic!

It's the same story anywhere, practice space, live, other studios I work out of...

Guess my ears just suck. Anybody else have a problem discerning if the bass is playing a low C as opposed to a C# underneath two heavily distorted guitars downtuned to B? I can usually tell if a bum note is being hit (just by keying in on the oscillations,) but I don't always know what bum note it was! Too lowwwww!

[max cooper]

Ever try a Fender Subsonic?

They're cool.

http://www.barryrudolph.com/ingear/b...rsubsonic.html

The scale is an inch and a half longer than standard and the low string is "B".

They've got the thunder. If you guys are gonna be doing that for a while, I totally recommend getting one.

they weren't very successful as a model, so I think they're pretty easy to find. They were all made in Cali if I recall correctly.

[AlexLakis]

That looks like exactly what I'm looking for, although a little out of my target price range.

Perhaps I'll try to mimic it with the Warmoth stuff?

Thanks, Max!

[max cooper]

FYI, I did try to make a six string version of a seven out of an old LP Jr.

I put BEADGB on it. Heavy ones, too. But the scale length is always the problem. Heavier strings kinda make for floppier, heavier strings. And the tone gets weird because of it.

That's why that Kubicki bass with the extension down to "D" made sense.

The E string extended down past the nut by two extra frets and had it's own nut down there.

So when you'd flop to drop D, the tension didn't change.

It's really hard to get around the physics of it, as you've discovered.

Here's the Kubicki. I hate the look of it, but hey...

[AlexLakis]

Almost looks like a clarinet or a bassoon.

Yeah, the tension is what really gets me. I can't stand that "flopping in the wind" crap. The music is heavy, and I don't wanna have to play it like it's made of tissue paper.

The baritone neck length is probably the way I'm gonna have to go before I get to where I wanna be with it.

[amost]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

My songwriting partner writes a lot of songs with the guitars tuned down 3 half steps. He then drop tunes it from standard, so the 6th and 4th strings are B.

I hate it, but I've all ready been down that road with him, so I don't need to hear about how tuning guitars down this low is stupid because I know all about it.

We're recording now, and we'll be gigging shortly. I'm stuck between two options:

1. Getting my Gibson Les Paul re-setup to be tuned to this "drop B" tuning (with gauge 13 strings.)

2. Buying a new guitar that lends itself to being tuned this low, and permanently keeping it for this tuning.

Which would you do and why? Can this be done well with the Gibson, or will it be flapping in the breeze (I all ready use 12 gauge strings on this guitar?) If I go the new guitar route, which would you recommend? It doesn't need to be anything fancy, just something that will get the job done.

Oh yeah, and NO SEVEN STRINGS! dfegad

Thanks for looking!

3. Why not just play in the key the tune now is in (a step & a half lower)...with your regular standard tuned guitar...or am I missing the point? He's in D you're in F etc....not as much fun as tuning down I suppose...

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by amost

3. Why not just play in the key the tune now is in (a step & a half lower)...with your regular standard tuned guitar...or am I missing the point? He's in D you're in F etc....not as much fun as tuning down I suppose...

Yeah, can't really do that, we use a lot of riffs and open strings and whatnot. Unless I can sneak a capo on his guitar without him noticing...

[origmechmouse]

I just discovered this today by accident. I love it because my guitar, while expensive, needs some tweaking to get the action lower. Now seeing this post and how some people are using heavier strings, it seems that good sounding laminate top guitars, being both inexpensive and in need of tonal help, might be a great answer. In other words, If I wanted to use 13s I'd take my 1982 v300 $100 pawn shop guitar out of moth balls and put the stings on her. I like the notion of heavier strings tuned down on guitars with high action it's a marriage made in heaven.

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

My songwriting partner writes a lot of songs with the guitars tuned down 3 half steps. He then drop tunes it from standard, so the 6th and 4th strings are B.

I hate it, but I've all ready been down that road with him, so I don't need to hear about how tuning guitars down this low is stupid because I know all about it.

We're recording now, and we'll be gigging shortly. I'm stuck between two options:

1. Getting my Gibson Les Paul re-setup to be tuned to this "drop B" tuning (with gauge 13 strings.)

2. Buying a new guitar that lends itself to being tuned this low, and permanently keeping it for this tuning.

Which would you do and why? Can this be done well with the Gibson, or will it be flapping in the breeze (I all ready use 12 gauge strings on this guitar?) If I go the new guitar route, which would you recommend? It doesn't need to be anything fancy, just something that will get the job done.

Oh yeah, and NO SEVEN STRINGS! dfegad

Thanks for looking!

[Larry Mal]

Well, the good news about a baritone guitar is, that's the tension that it's designed to have. The "normal" guitar, more or less, is all designed with having the tension that comes with E to E tuning. Not to mention the sound is designed for that tuning as well.

I play a lot in open C, not far from where you are at B. There's just too much bass, though, in that tuning, and it has to be addressed. With just the solo guitar, you can get away with it. Add in any other bass instruments, though, and it can quickly all become a muddy mess down there. Honestly, I find this true with standard tuning also... remember, the guitar was designed as a solo/parlor instrument, if it was designed explicitly to be played in a combination setting exclusively, it wouldn't have as much bass, that would be left to the bass instruments. Not to say you don't know it, but look at E2 on a piano keyboard:

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/Files/...hys_img024.jpg

There's just really not a lot of useable bass frequency to the left of that. And that's with E2 in standard tuning, you are down to B1!

So yeah, you can get a baritone guitar and get a little range on that instrument that the guitar isn't already walking all over, and maybe the bass guitar can find a little range underneath even that.

But why aren't you going in the opposite direction? He's playing so low, why don't you play in a higher register? I'm not criticizing, and I'll actually try and address your question a little better if I can. I just want to know why you and he are in such a race to the bottom, as it were.