Mic Pair Choice - Josephson C42 or Beyer M160

[lucey]

Originally posted by jazzius II
this seems to be where all the mic-sluts are hangin'

sooooo.......

....if one were to purchase a pair of C42's for percussion duty, how important is it to get a matched pair?........how much could an unmatched pair differ?.....are we talking about fractions of a dB somewhere in the spectrum or could/would it be more noticable/problematic?

I'm guessing no one will know ... except to ask David J.

I'd bet they'll match one for you later on, if that was even needed.

The josephsons are great also on acoustic guitar ... terrific curve and quality of sound.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by jazzius II

....if one were to purchase a pair of C42's for percussion duty, how important is it to get a matched pair?........how much could an unmatched pair differ?.....are we talking about fractions of a dB somewhere in the spectrum or could/would it be more noticable/problematic?

I'd think they would vary by 1-2dB here and there. For general use stuff like acoustic guitars, overheads, piano etc. it probably won't matter much if at all. Sometimes I use TLM103's for overheads, not matched and purchased about a year and a half apart and they sound fine. Still, if you want the best answer I'd call David and find out from him.

[iflyinmymind]

Hello...I have been hanging out with this engineer Eugine Brown, and he uses Shures new KSM32's as overheads (& guitar), and I think they sound pretty good.

I looked on shures website and all of these great drummers use these as their overhead choice. Some drummers using them were Dennis Chambers, Peter Erskine, Simon Phillips, etc. These guys definately choose any mic they want.

Does anyone have an opinion these mics? They seem like a good deal used. But these mics are not matched, but supposedly the factory has good quality control. Some reviewers like them, some don't. The bottom end is supposed to be consistant but the high freq.'s are where they are different.

I will probably borrow these mics for a bit to test them against my unmatched banjo mart oktava mc012's.

Anyone really like them? Use them? Hate them?
________________
Todd Seibel

[lucey]

Originally posted by iflyinmymind
Hello...I have been hanging out with this engineer Eugine Brown, and he uses Shures new KSM32's as overheads (& guitar), and I think they sound pretty good.

I looked on shures website and all of these great drummers use these as their overhead choice. Some drummers using them were Dennis Chambers, Peter Erskine, Simon Phillips, etc. These guys definately choose any mic they want.

Yes these drummers could choose any mic they wanted ... if they only
a) gave a damn
b) could hear the difference

which cannot be known at a distance. Chambers would probably rather spend time trying to pick up anything that walks than test mics in the studio. not a slam, just an observation from seeing him work some girls I know.

the new shure mics are fine, yet overpriced and hardly innovative or full of high quality components. the amount of advertising and image building that goes into signing people like this to influence people like yourself has to make you wonder ... why do some newer or smaller companies of repute have no famous musician endorsees? Are they not worthy?

Maybe they don't need them ...

A/B mics for yourself and decide, it's the only way to learn about
a) the mics
and mostly
b) yourself. how you hear/what you need

The oktava's are a deal these days but the C42 is a quality mic with versatility. there are others from AKG, Audix, MXL, Neumann, etc ... all worth your time.

You might get better and more specific responses than mine if you said what you have and what you're looking for ... if you don't get specific you'll just get opinions that you can't really apply to your situation.

Brian

[bloodstone]

In the most recent issue of Tape Op, Andy Johns stated the "John Bonham" drum sound was achieved with a pair of M160s.

[jbuntz]

I think he was referring to the famous "Levee Breaks" drum sound. This makes me think of something. Check the moan zone.

[bloodstone]

Originally posted by jbuntz
I think he was referring to the famous "Levee Breaks" drum sound. This makes me think of something. Check the moan zone.

Ok. That's a hell of a drum sound coming from 2 ribbon mics.

[jeronimo]

I did a recording w/ Dennis Chambers around 2/3 years ago... and he used exactly what we had in the studio... he didn't even asked for something in particular...

[smetaxas]

Actually, I've been using a set of KSM 32s for overheads and was thinking of switching over to the C42s. Would the KSM 32s work well for drum room mics?

[Jules]

I am agonizing over small drum room OH choices myself at the moment!

Great thread!

Josephsons
160's
KM 84's
451EB - CK1

All in concideration.....

I think I like ribbons..... as I am recording to digital

So....

[bing81]

Originally posted by Jules


Josephsons
160's
KM 84's
451EB - CK1

I've tried the last 3 of those as drum OH's .. god, I might even have a test floating round somewhere. But for ProTools, I preferred (as did the drummers/bands) the 160's. Just a bit more meat. The 84's were fine, just a bit too detailed for me, and the 451 had too much top end overall. However .. you don't say whether you're looking for OH's as a kit pair, or as a cymbal pair. If the latter, I'd look at the last two. If the former, I'd try the 160's .. as has been mentioned here, they're not that expensive.

[Jam]

Sorry to tack this on to someone else's thread but it seems relevant. I have one KM184 and in my upcoming spend I was thinking of buying a second for O/H and some stereo duties. But with the dollar pound exchange rate being what it is at the moment a matched pair of C42s from Fletcher has some appeal. However there seems to be no UK distributor for the Josephsons so I can't try them anyone have any thoughts or suggestions ?

Jam

[dhughes]

Dudes and Dudettes (I always thought Dude was gender neutral, but why risk it),

I just got in my Josephson c42s last week and they are absolutely amazing in a low ceiling/small room. I can't give the technical comparisons that some folks around here are capable of. I can tell you that the drum sound is amazingly crisp and accurate yet it at the same time makes the room sound three times as big. I've not even felt the need to add back in reverb. It sounds so good exactly as it was recorded.


FWIW, i used them with a RNP and an RNC on "super nice."

Seriously, a small tear rolled down my cheek when I heard the first playback.

[betsy]

Glad to see you're walking the line.

Dudette

[Jules]

more confusion!!!

[dhughes]

Originally posted by betsy
Glad to see you're walking the line.

Dudette

Thought you'd like that.

I'm still working on that grow project. No luck yet. Any tips.

dfegad

[TML]

"makes the room sound three times as big. I've not even felt the need to add back in reverb. "

Does this mean the 42's pick up more of the room....than you may want....unless your small room sounds really tight or is attached to another room that it may be picking verb up from?
I have 414's and 184's...find that the 184's are to harsh to digital...on ocassion..would love to try both the ribbon and 42's...sounds interesting....
Tim

[Jules]

Just tried the M160's in our drum room..

Nice and CREAMY cymbal sound!

Did'nt seem to pick up too much room (just what we want)

We had em running into a Thermonic Culture Earlybird (my fave ribbon mic pre) but will be sure to try them into our Helios modules for that authentic Led Zep sound!

[mardyk]

Another vote for the c-42s. I recorded drums with them for the first time last week. Best OH sound I ever got. I used Recorderman's technique. Amazingly big toms and crisp clean cymbals. A-designs MP2 and Fatso with some warmth. Sweet.
Didn't feel that the room got bigger though. Which is good for me. I also added a Royer-122 in front of the kit for some extra fatness. Good mix.
Been using the c-42 for a while on acoustic guitars. Works great with my Hummingbird.

[dhughes]

Kind of lost track of this thread. In reference to the "makes the room sound bigger" I think I caught up in the excitement of my new mics. Anyway, how about....it makes the drums sound better....or wait, how about it makes the drums sound like they really sound....or wait, hell.....they're awesome mics....I don't know.

Mardyk, it sounds like you and I have a similar set up. I just tracked a drummer on Saturday with the recorderman technique and a Royer 121 about six feet back.

The drummer pooped his pants when I played back the sound for him.

what is this technique?

[dhughes]

Originally posted by chikkenguy
what is this technique?

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ht=recorderman

This will give you some cool ideas....

[iflyinmymind]

DHughes..Did you use any other mics w/ the c42 and royer combo? I still have not made up my mind, but I think that your technique sounds interesting. I love the recorderman setup, it is definately in the MUST TRY catagorey.

I think I might wait for a used Royer r-121/122 if anyone knows where one in good shape is at.

Has anyone done the scott dorsey mod to the oktava mc012? It is bascially an upgrade of the internal components, on the cheap.

Hey Jules, I bet that the m160 through helios sounds killer!! You just need a giant mansion to put the drums in!!

Cheers All gearslutz

[Jules]

Yes tasty (!) next session (yesterday & today) I used this chain

2 x M160 (ORTF)
Helios vintage pre (no eq used)
SSL comp (sustain)
Tubetech PEC-1 EQ adding sheen & some beef
Prism Dream ADA converters
PT

And was happy with it

[dhughes]

Originally posted by iflyinmymind
[B]DHughes..Did you use any other mics w/ the c42 and royer combo? I still have not made up my mind, but I think that your technique sounds interesting. I love the recorderman setup, it is definately in the MUST TRY catagorey.

B]

This session was for a metal band so I did also use tom mics and a snare mic - SM57s (since I've got six of them). Though I didn't end up needing much of them in the mix. In fact, on this particular session I didn't use the snare mic as it came through so clear and loud in the OHs. On a more recent project I used the same set up without the tom mics and it worked great.

I also use an Audix D6 inside the kick and a Shure KSM27 on the outside.

As I am getting more comfortable with various techniques, I'm finding that I use a different set up with just about every drummer and every project.

But the full blown set up consists of the OHs (C42s) in recorderman. A Royer 121 several feet back. Dynamics on the floor and snare. Sometimes dynamics or sometimes SDCs on the rack toms. And maybe something on the hat.

However, when I record my own band (which is instrument rock fusion kind of thing) I just use 4 mics: OHs, e609 silver on snare (which I love), and D6 in the kick pointed towards the shell not the pedal. And it works great for that application.

Well, that was probably more than you were asking about....I'm a rambler.

[jeronimo]

Originally posted by dhughes
This session was for a metal band so I did also use tom mics and a snare mic - SM57s (since I've got six of them). Though I didn't end up needing much of them in the mix. In fact, on this particular session I didn't use the snare mic as it came through so clear and loud in the OHs. On a more recent project I used the same set up without the tom mics and it worked great.

Would you mind sharing a mp3 of this recording?
I'm curious about this metal song that you didn't use a snare mic in the mix...

[dhughes]

I'll ask the band and get back with you.