looking for a main omni pair for classical location recording

[deve]

Hi, what are the best sounding mics out there? say if the price wasn't an issue ?

[lampmeister]

Completely depends on personal preference and application.

Schoeps, DPA, Earthworks, Gefell, Neumann, AKG, Beyer, Soundfield - all are fair game.

Dave.

Edit: Oops, typo.

[Jim vanBergen]

The "BEST" changes radically based upon style of music & application.

Schoeps, DPA, Neumann, Earthworks, Microtech Gefell, is a start for SDC's or LDC's.

Can you specify the type of music and how you typically mic them?
For example, classical recording of orchestra/symphony I could easily choose a full set of mics from each of the five manufacturers listed above. Relatively subtle differences among them if you know what you're using.

In general price runs from $ 1500 USD per mic to $3100 USD per mic, depending. My fave distant or flown orchestral mic is probably DPA 4041, a LDC that is incredibly open and smooth; Schoeps are almost warm but are my DE FACTO favorite for Decca use. Gefell has a tiny edge of HF that I might characterize as almost metallic (though I don't think that translates to a recording) All of these are superbly neutral and accurate.

Does this help?

[David Spearritt]

If money no object, and I was buying a pair of omnis for location classical now, it would be in this order (due to cost):

1. M150
2. TLM50
3. DPA 4006 TL

[pkautzsch]

I'd like to add three good (good old) M50s to that list - and, if I had the money, to my mic locker.

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

I'd like to add three good (good old) M50s to that list - and, if I had the money, to my mic locker.

yeah - except you'll NEVER find three that sound exactly the same.

[Plush]

M50 of course.
or. . .Sonodore
Any neutral mic will do.

It is the orchestra making the sound, not the mic making the sound.

Realistically speaking, you're receiving good advice above---any neutral mic from those companies.

[David Spearritt]

The M50 is no longer available as a production mic, so its not really helpful recommending it. One might wait for months or years for one that may or may not "work". Its more useful to recommend currently available products.

[classicalrecord]

well, yes, but the person did ask "regardless of price" and "best sounding" so the m50's are kind of fair game... semantics really... in any case, you might add the sennheiser mkh20's to the list as far as neutral sdc omni's for classical.

[MBishopSFX]

I've used most of the above mentioned mics on orchestras. My favorite though is the Sennheiser MKH-800.

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by Plush

It is the orchestra making the sound, not the mic making the sound.
.

How often we can tend to overlook the basics ...

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott

How often we can tend to overlook the basics ...

Quite true, but once you have a hit, or even a really great sounding recording, it's difficult to say that "any tool will work" while in the right hands, just about any tool can work fine. Problem is, who is OK with their work sounding "just fine"?

[hughesmr]

While I am personally a Schoeps fan, I would say that if price is no object and you are looking for ONLY one pair (although if price were no object, I don't understand that reasoning ... just get several different pairs!), you should look at a model that adapts for both near and diffuse field work. Good choices in that regard include the Sennheiser MKH20 or the DPA 4006/4006TL/4003 (interchangeable grids).

Does the MKH800 have that pressure build-up ring that the MKH20 has?

[David Spearritt]

Considering I haven't heard the MKH-800 yet, this next statement is speculation. But I have never heard a double back to back cardioid multi pattern large-ish capsule arrangement in omni ever sound as good and as a small pure pressure single diaphram omni.

[tenor39]

If transparency, clarity, and neutrality are your priorities, the DPA's have no peer. My next choice would be Schoeps. From what I've read the Senheiser MKH-800's are equalized internally to get a reasonable response curve. I would think the phase shifts at multiple frequencies would not bode well for stellar sound... but then I'm not Telarc, so that's only my opinion.

[AdamLazlo]

Can't go wrong with a multitude of perfectly original longbody tube Telefunken/Neumann U47's like an Abbey Road/John Williams/London Symphony Orchestra session.

-- Adam Lazlo

[idylldon]

I'd recommend that you also consider the Gefell M296 small diaphragm omni. They easily stand with the other SDC mics listed above.

Cheers,
--
Don

[Haigbabe]

SoundField

Sonodore

DPA LDCs


Haigbabe

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by AdamLazlo

Can't go wrong with a multitude of perfectly original longbody tube Telefunken/Neumann U47's like an Abbey Road/John Williams/London Symphony Orchestra session.

-- Adam Lazlo

Honestly I can't imagine 47's being used on a film score date

honestly

[deve]

thanks to all, been very helpful. It will be my first omni pair so I want to invest in something good. I managed to get together a decent chain. I have little experience exept assisting on couple of dates. I do studio work but it's dying slowly so I have to search my dough elsewhere. trying to figure out what's most desired in the industry. Seems like I'll go for dpa's or shoeps since m50's and the likes are out of my reach financially.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by idylldon

I'd recommend that you also consider the Gefell M296 small diaphragm omni. They easily stand with the other SDC mics listed above.

Cheers,
--
Don

I have three of these, and I have been told they are actually a LARGE diaphhragm condenser capsule- weird, huh? They compare quite nicely with my Schoeps CMC5/MK2s, my DPA 4007s, and my Earthworks QTC-1s.

From the Microtech Gefell website: "1995:(snip) The M 296 miniature omni condenser microphone incorporating a 1 inch, 4 micron, nickel measurement mike capsule is introduced."

1" capsule... that fits the LDC in most books. The fact that the diaphragm is nickel explains why the only BAD thing I ever hear about them is the 'slightly metallic' sound in comparison with gold diaphragms, as thats a considerably softer metal than nickel.

I have not tried them in close on a bass viol or tympani, but am kind of aching to do so...to see if they act like a SDC or if the LDC has an interesting character...while still being an omni.

They are quite nice mics...as are the others we've discussed. I like the M50s when I've had a chance to use them, but I have never found TWO that sound close, let alone three or more. I always end up EQ (horros!) to match, and swapping mics to get a more even soundfield.

Adam, I have no doubt that the RIGHT U47 longbody tube mics sound amazing. Like the M50s, it's gotta be tough to find the right ones.

Has anyone seen the mic list from the scoring stage at Skywalker? Nice example of a good classical mic locker, though they only have 1 Telefunken ELAM251 and one longbody U47 (Korby Serviced). Still, I'd give my left nut for this kit:

From the Skywalker website (SCORING STAGE EQUIPMENT), current as of 2005:
MICROPHONES:
AKG:
C12 (4)
C12A (4)
C24 (1)
452 (3)
451 (1)
CK8 Capsules (2)
414EB (4)
C460B (2)
D224E (1)
D112 (1)
D12E (1)

TELEFUNKEN
Elam 251

SCHOEPS
M221F (3)
CMC5u (3)
Capsules:
MK2H Omni (3)
MK41 Hypercardioid (2)
MK4 Cardioid (2)

B&K
4011 Cardioid (2)
4003 Omni (2)

COLES
4038 Ribbon (2)

ROYER
R121 mono (matched pair)
SF12 (1)

DIRECTS
Countryman (4)
Jensen (12)
TUBE (2)
Millenia Media TD-1

NEUMANN:
M50 (3)
M49 (4)
SM69 (1)
U67 (4)
KM84i (2 Klaus Heyne modified, 4 stock)
KM86i (2)
U87 (2 Klaus Heyne modified, 2 stock)
U47 (1) Tracy Korby serviced
Fet 47 (2)
KM140 (2)
SKM140 (1) matched stereo pair
Capsules:
AK43 Wide Cardioid (2)
AK 31 Omni (2)
TLM 170R (6)
M 149 (2)
M147 (1)

SENNHEISER
MKH 40 (4)
MKH 80 (3)
421 (5)
441 (2)

SHURE
545 (2)
SM56 (3)
SM57 (5)
SM7 (1)
SM 81 (2)
VP-88 Stereo

MISC
RCA 10001D (2)
Wes Dooley AEA 44s (2)
EV RE20 (1)
Oktava 012 (4)
RCA DX 77 (1)
Sony ECM 50-lavaliers (2)

[MBishopSFX]

Originally Posted by deve

thanks to all, been very helpful. It will be my first omni pair so I want to invest in something good. I managed to get together a decent chain. I have little experience exept assisting on couple of dates. I do studio work but it's dying slowly so I have to search my dough elsewhere. trying to figure out what's most desired in the industry. Seems like I'll go for dpa's or shoeps since m50's and the likes are out of my reach financially.

Give the Schoeps a try - you cannot go wrong with them! MK-2, MK-2S, and MK-2H capsules are pretty essential.

[Dirty Gear Pimp]

for a nice pair of omni's id say go with the Schoeps. i also like earthworks mics too. i have a pair of the tc 40k and i love them.

[ISedlacek]

MK2 are the most natural sounding Schoeps omnis. The other two '(MK2H and MK2S) sound already a bit "artificial".I always prefer to add something later (like a touch of EQ), than to have it cooked instantly

[Pluto]

Nothing will every beat a pair of Earthworks QTC 50 or 40 for classical recordings, rock, jazz, drums and any kind of music. They are the most honest, detailed and by far the clearest mics I have ever heard. Get the demo CD, its just rediculous: http://earthworksaudio.com/43.html
Two decent pres with a pair of these Earthworks mics will just sound rediculous. No other mic really comes close.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Pluto

Nothing will every beat a pair of Earthworks QTC 50 or 40 for classical recordings, rock, jazz, drums and any kind of music. They are the most honest, detailed and by far the clearest mics I have ever heard. Get the demo CD, its just rediculous: http://earthworksaudio.com/43.html
Two decent pres with a pair of these Earthworks mics will just sound rediculous. No other mic really comes close.

What does "rediculous" mean ? Ridiculous ?

[Remoteness]

In other words, the word ridiculous usually means ludicrous, absurd, bizarre, preposterous or silly.

I do believe Pluto was trying to say those mics were incredible sounding which can be stated this way = They're rediculous (in a positive way) sounding...

Pluto, please correct me if I'm wrong.