Any leads on getting a really good acoustic guitar sound live?

[juicylime]

I have lovely Lowden acoustic guitar with a high quality active EMG pre-amp built in that I want to really get the most out of on stage. Any tips on set up?

[Protools Guy]

Tell the drummer to use brushes; or, better yet, have him/her come out from behind the kit and play congas/bongos.

Then, you step up to a good condenser mic (414) and play lightly so the mic picks up the tone of the wood and not just the string.

[juicylime]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Tell the drummer to use brushes; or, better yet, have him/her come out from behind the kit and play congas/bongos.

Then, you step up to a good condenser mic (414) and play lightly so the mic picks up the tone of the wood and not just the string.

I actually intened on doing that for a song or two each set, get the audience to really tune and share the roomn by not playing through the PA. When you do with the right song and crowd it's killer. I'm not sure about doing it all the time though!! In also want a big crisp killer acostic sound that will take the weight of a full kit with sticks, bass and electric guitar. And a string quartet. And a horn section. O, and a choir of course.

[Protools Guy]

Lime -
I'll be lurking this thread for the answers. I'm very interested in all suggestions.

[Protools Guy]

I forgot to mention that you need a feeback buster.

[squeegybug]

I've played my O32 Lowden onstage for a while now. I set it up with Trance Audio pickups. Have never used the EMG, that is two undersaddle pickups, right?

The biggest factors I have found with amplifying nice acoustics like this are 1) preamp, 2) EQ, 3) FX, 4) Speakers. Of course the exact signal chain is dependent on the transducer. The best I found for my setup was 1) Sunrise STI, 2) Speck ASC-T, 3) Line6 DL4, 4) SLS 8190.

Not the cheapest system. Incredibly powerful clean sound, though.

Of course, some folks like to add an internal mic and blend some with the PU to the FOH, keeping it out of the wedges. For hard driving pop like you are talking, I've had better success using only the pickups and skipping the mic.

Congratulations on your Lowden, what model do you have? Mine continues to be the finest instrument I have ever played. thumbsup

Steve

[ssaudio]

Originally Posted by juicylime

I have lovely Lowden acoustic guitar with a high quality active EMG pre-amp built in that I want to really get the most out of on stage. Any tips on set up?

Have a look at these:

http://exploraudio.com/livestrings_5_1.htm

I took the plunge and it works brilliantly...

[StringMike]

I use various acoustics, a mahogany dreadnought, a small vintage, mahogany 00-size, dobros, mandolins etc. I have a dedicated board with the stompboxes I need. Basically, it's just:
1) BOSS TU-2 tuner. It's good for stage use, bright and clear - I plan on getting a 2nd looper to get it out of my signal path. It seems to alter the signal a bit.
2) TC Electronics 2-band parametric EQ. It's got 2 full bands of EQ with Q control, and a fixed hi shelving filter. Great for emphazising special characteristics of your guitar, if you need to cut here and there to prevent feedback. Compensation, you know. Unfortunately these units went out of production years ago, but they show up now and then. I paid around 100$ for mine used. Don't know if there is anything out there that's stompbox-sized and fully parametric, with Q/bandwith.
3) Keeley looper. The TC has no on/off footswitch, so I use this to turn the unit on and off. Btw, the TC has a volume knob too, that boost or attenuate 12db. Great feature!!
4) EBS dynaverb pedal. This one is very popular among guitarists, because of it's dynamic response, and the way it doesn't get muddy in the low end. Unfortunately, it's a must to have your own pedal - reverb is very hard to explain and often you don't want the kind that's made for the snare or the singer. And sometimes, at smaller venues, you can't send fx to monitor sends. Anyway, it's nice to have your own, but it has to be good, or the FOH guy will come after you!!!
5) Carl Martin EQ and Line Driver. It's always nice to have your own quality line driver - I've seen well established production companies with Behringer line drivers... And this one has an EQ and a boost, and it's perfect for soloing, because you can cut the lower mids to keep your guitar from beeing too boomy, when you kick the box for solo level.

That's my advice - and, oh: Do everything you can to keep the feedbackbuster out of your soundhole. I find it better to cut a little here and there, than to lose the last bit of 3Dness and resonance in a pickup... But of course, if you are very loud on stage, it might be the only solution, if you don't want your guitar to sound like a ukulele through a kitchen radio.
Unfortunately, getting a good acoustic guitar sound live in a rock setting is all about compromise... Good luck!

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by StringMike

Unfortunately, getting a good acoustic guitar sound live in a rock setting is all about compromise... Good luck!

I couldn't have said it better myself. That's the part where the drummer drops the sticks and picks up the brushes.

[flail19]

I found the LR Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. Preamp Direct Box to be imperative for my live sound.

[juicylime]

Protools guy: Lurk away! If I saw this post from someone else I'd be watching it like a hawk!

StringMike: That's a great response, thanks! I'll definitely take the time to investigate some of that gear.

Squeegybug: My Lowden is an O23 that I've had for 12 years. they are magnificent beasts indeed. You're right about the EMG, it's two undersaddle pick ups. At the time Lowden weren't shipping guitars with pick ups (perhaps they never did?) but they made a small concession to practicality by purposefully building in the right amount of space under the saddle for the EMG preamps that they recommended. They also made the rear strap nut hole wide enough to take a jack input. Although you still had to buy and fit this stuff seperately and fit a front strap holder yourself. The EMG has no external tone or volume guitar because that would entail punching a hole in your Lowden body. Heaven forbid!

One thing I've started considering is lowering the action a little. I play simple accompaniment to my vocals but with a strong right hand. I use 13's to get a really big sound rich in body and overtones and at the end of a gig my fingers can be pretty sore, sometimes I have to re-position mid chord because the gap at the top of my finger isn't getting all the string! Ouch!

Anyone out there using compression live?

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by juicylime

Anyone out there using compression live?

Not to sound like doom & gloom, but compression from your acoustic guitar will lead to more feedback, and to your open strings taking off, ringing uncontrolably by themselves.

My FOH guy puts a little (2-3:1) on it out front, but coming through the monitors, no.

If I ould get my freakin' drummer to play brushes, I'd LOVE to have compression because I would hear more than just the string's attack poking through the huge wall of drums that is currently domination the monitor mix. He's a hard hitting drummer. I love that until it's time to play my acoustic. Then I'm strumming so hard that the tone suffers. When it turns into a struggle, it's hard to have a good time up there.

[The dman]

hen I'm strumming so hard that the tone suffers. When it turns into a struggle, it's hard to have a good time up there.

I know exactly what your saying. A band I play with is acoustic guitar based with electric bass,drums and keyboards. Our sound centers around a lot of improv acoustic leads and we always start out the night telling the drummer to back it down a notch. Lo and behold as the night progresses the drummer get's louder to the point of when I do a lead I can't even hear it. It sucks

Dawg, the guitarist for poi dog pondering sat in with us one night and I don't know what he did but his acoustic was very very loud without feeding back, he had a little stomp box he was using but I don't know what it was.

How do you guys deal with lowend feedback? I have a feedback eliminator in my sound hole but I still have a problem sometimes with lo end feedback. The problem with cutting too much low is that I don't like the sound when all the lows are gone. So I'm thinking some kind of notch eq might do the trick.I'm using an EMG under the saddle pickup which is very sensitive but it sounds great.

[analogjeff]

Baggs is good stuff -- also, for more money, consider the Pendulum guitar pre -- very good!!! i use it in my regular rig with a 60's martin -- great sound and makes life easy...

[ergower]

Just a thought....I have been playing acoustic instruments with a full band for many years and have trial & errored this acoustic amplification problem and have come up with this......the best solution for me is to have an Acoustic Amplifier with a Direct Out and try to strike a nice balance between your amp volume and your monitor volume so that neither one is inordinately cranked.....you do have to haul it around, but it gives you control in several different places in the signal path, which for me makes it easier to dial in a tone without feedback.....I use an SWR Strawberry Blonde & have for years (IMHO one of the finest deals out there, sounds great on my mando, acoustic & guit-jo with minimal tweaking and it is durable as hell....I have been abusing mine 4 to 5 nights a week for upwards of seven years).....I don't ever use a "fuzz-buster" because it completely saps all the tone out of the guitar....whoever mentioned "2D" as a description earlier is right on.....I do run through a Boss Tuner for the obvious reasons, but also to cut the signal when switching between instruments.....I know that there are several different acoustic amplifiers out there and a bunch of rack mount pre's as well, and I can't really speak on those, but I will go to bat for SWR everytime because that thing is a tank and it sounds great with minimal fuss, and it gives you stage volume behind you which will help you and your mates hear all the better...I have several other doo-dads in my set up, but that is the basic and it works well for me.....in lieu of an amp, go get an LR Baggs DI and be done with it, it just may sound a bit crisp and require some tinkering......

hope this helps and feel free to shoot any other questions my way...

cheers

[DRC]

Ive used a mini-mic in the soundhole and a Sunrise magnetic pickup in my Martin for a while. I have them wired stereo and blend them with a Pendulum SPS. It has 3 fully parametric bands on it as well as some nice mic pres if you wanna do the condenser and pickup thing.

I move both pickups to the center, flip phase if needed, notch some nasty stuff out and send the signal to the FOH (which was usually me and my mixer to the far left of us).

I bought it about 10 years ago for $1200. I'll never part with it. Nor the Martin. Alot of people have told me they thought it was the most natrual sounding acoustic they ever heard reproduced in a bar. If the band gets loud, just blend more of the mag-pup into the mix, if its a very quiet set blend the mini-mic back up. If its just you, bring a SDC and blend that with the Mag-pup. Then just send the pup to the monitor feed so you dont get an awful loop going with the SDC.

Good luck.