Autotune in live performance

[MBBCFP]

Originally Posted by dream

That died a long time ago, dude. Where have you been? Progressives are very scarce in this day and age..

Progress? You call substituting technology for technique progress? Real musicians do not agree with that premise no matter their age. Notice I said "musicians."

Using such technology for "effect" is one thing, like recording through a cardboard tube for the effect but to routinely use it because you cannot sing in tune is a disgrace.

I have used auto tune (sparingly) on the occasional sagging long-held note while mixing/mastering. I never -- never use it on a whole track. If that is necessary, get a singer who can sing.

[ryansawers]

The osculation created by an autotuner with the rate turned up is sometimes desirable, especially in a lot of modern music. Either you like it or you don't. If you like it, use it. If you don't, don't waste the money on it. It's just a tool like anything else you use in music to create a desirable sound or effect. It wasn't created by the devil. It was created by someone who is just the same as the person who invented the big muff, and I bet half of you swear by that fuzz. Maybe you don't. Whatever.

Keep up the narrow-mindedness and you'll never make it in this industry.

[cortisol]

From what I can gather SAE teaches its students to put autotune on the vocals regardless as it is the sound of a produced vocal...

For gigs and live performance I would actually prefere autotuned vocals to mimed vox. Did someone say Lacuna Coil.

To ryansawers - I think the music business has been so mismanaged that its criminal. Being part of this business... I think I'll use my own business model rather than patern myself on the dwindling success of the old recording studio/ major label model.

I do think that sometimes the stage environment can prevent singers from recieving musical information to pitch to. If the instruments are all percussion or heavily distorted guitars then that can be quite hard to pitch too as can high sound pressure levels. Even an ear infection or blockage can make accurate pitching impossible.

People don't want to take chances as for the most part you've got one shot to get things right in the audiences perception.

I'm a drummer and one of my favourite players is Chris Adler from Lamb of God. When he played here on a festival earlier in the year his feet where hopelessly out of time with his hands! I couldn't believe my ears! Maybe he didn't warm up or maybe he was drunk... but damn. Same gig Lacuna Coil delivered the same performance as I'd seen in the UK with the singer sheilding the mic from the audience on the long notes like it's a well rehearsed miming session. I'm looking at these guys and I'm saying to myself is the only one playing in this band the drummer? Sometimes the bass player has lines on backing track... Are the guitars reamped? They could probably play and sing great but don't want to take any chances. Crazy.

Peace,
cortisol

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by ryansawers

The osculation created by an autotuner with the rate turned up is sometimes desirable, especially in a lot of modern music. Either you like it or you don't. If you like it, use it. If you don't, don't waste the money on it. It's just a tool like anything else you use in music to create a desirable sound or effect. It wasn't created by the devil. It was created by someone who is just the same as the person who invented the big muff, and I bet half of you swear by that fuzz. Maybe you don't. Whatever.

Keep up the narrow-mindedness and you'll never make it in this industry.

So on your first post you say we are all narrow minded? Thanks for getting to know us. Getting that out of the way...I totally disagree with your logic. It is not created to create a desired sound or effect, it is created to correct someone's inability to keep keep in tune. If the Big Muff was created for this purpose, I would agree, however the Big Muff was created to distort the guitar not keep it in tune if the player hits a wrong note. Anyway...thanks for joining, maybe you can get to know us before you jump to conclusions.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by talbe1019

So on your first post you say we are all narrow minded? Thanks for getting to know us. Getting that out of the way...I totally disagree with your logic. It is not created to create a desired sound or effect, it is created to correct someone's inability to keep keep in tune. If the Big Muff was created for this purpose, I would agree, however the Big Muff was created to distort the guitar not keep it in tune if the player hits a wrong note. Anyway...thanks for joining, maybe you can get to know us before you jump to conclusions.

You should have seen what he really said, in the subject line before I edited it...
It would have brought us down a path most would not appreciate.
Instead of giving him an infraction I edited his subject line.

[xIdPushYouAwayX]

Really, isn't it about the music? It's not how it's done, but how it sounds. Yeah, as far as musicianship goes, it's cheap. Who cares? If you have too much integrity to use it and make money, then that's fine. Everyone has their own way of looking at things. I think it's just as stubborn as refusing to use a double-bass pedal. It's not cheating, it's just technological advancement.

[jude]

am i the only one here to offer the perfect solution?!


If you dont like it, dont listen to it!!!


its pretty simple. autotune abused vocals sell, hate it if you will, but its true. so if you dont like it avoid the pop world, go back to classical fuuck

[maxpidge]

Originally Posted by hollowsea

Hey all,

I've been lurking here on and off for several months and was finally inspired enough to post tonight about something that disturbs me. Yes, that thing is Autotune used on singers in concert.

How many of you can actually "hear Autotune" in a voice? I haven't talked to anyone who hears it the way I do, so I'm curious if any of you hear it the same way. I'll try to explain it the best I can.

It's not just a matter of being on the correct pitch; the voice, through Autotune, actually oscillates at different frequencies and it no longer sounds like a true human voice to me but like some sort of synthetic representation. If it's set to too fast a speed, vibrato is either immediately exaggerated or squashed, the latter of which also sounds like a bizarre shift in oscillation while staying on the same note. If the singer doesn't get close enough to the desired note, the program sets it to the wrong note, so it sounds like the singer hit some odd note right on instead of wavering around the pitch, which also isn't natural sounding. Not to mention that a singer will naturally float around pitches, and when Autotuned they are restricted to singing each pitch exactly on throughout its endurance.

Sorry if this is all elementary, but I really haven't talked to anyone who hears the same oscillation issues that I do. But due to all these issues, Autotune has to be very carefully and manually set so that the voice still sounds as natural as it can. This of course makes it a bit sketchy for use in live performance.

I'm sure use of this is more widespread than I've noticed, but there are a couple shows I've seen where it's so blatant that it scares me that this passes as acceptable nowadays. The first time I heard it was in some of Ruben's later performances on American Idol. He has a wavering, slow vibrato and it suddenly started "clicking" into place rather than smoothly moving up and down.

The absolute worst was a recent ice skating special that featured live performances of Burt Bacharach songs, with singers. Just about everyone had the bad Autotune quality to their voices, even very experienced singers who I would've expected to sound fine without it or at least be respected enough to not have the Autotune lazily slapped on. I didn't see the entire show, but out of about 6 different singers that I did see, the only one who didn't sound Autotuned was Ronald Isley. His voice sounded natural. The other singers sounded like computers. I'm curious as to whether there was just a blanket usage of Autotune and singers had to request that it not be used, or if they really thought it was necessary on those particular singers.

Enough rambling. And if this has already been discussed into the ground here, would someone be kind enough to link me to the thread? I looked for some talk about it but didn't find much. I'm interested to read your thoughts about this.

it's like finger nails on a chalkboard... STOP!!!

[drumgod]

I really understand all you pissed off musicians out there who are working at Taco Bell waiting to make a living off playing real music, but guess what?......the demand for that is gone. And getting mad at people who use auto tune is the opposite of what to do.....If you cant beet em join em. Whats it gonna hurt to make a few bucks shitting out a rap song in Garage Band? People love that shit and it is soooo easy to do. I am a pretty good drummer, transcribing Weckl solos, mastering John Riley jazz fundamentals....eh:/thumbsup But I am even better at using Auto tune in a elecro band I just shat together because I was sick of being to good to make money...And lets face it Fusion Jazz..out....Super simplified party dance ......in.....So sell out....yes sell out.....Then as your Itunes sales go up your real passion can grow in the time you dont spend in a hot Taco Bell kitchen.

Originally Posted by DigiGeek

I hate this more than almost anything. I think it should be a law that to use autotune, you are required to have a licence, based on your ability to sing without it.

I believe that Autotune and beat detective and all of these things that digital has brought to recording is killing the art of good musicianship and if we do not do something to change this, then the next generation of music will have nothing to offer.

I also feel that the only way this is ever going to happen is changing the model of the music business. see this thread for further discussion: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=9313

[marczellm]

In my experience when a vocal is Autotuned, you can best hear it with sustained notes. It will sound flat and it doesn't have the liveliness of an unmodified vocal. When I first noticed that Autotune is audible even on tracks where it is not meant to be heard, it was the Glee cover of Somebody to Love (originally by Queen) on the radio. It's very conspicuous on that song. I'm annoyed by the fact that even a cappella bands use it on their recordings, though it's apparent that they would do very well without it.

I've read somewhere that major studios no more release a song without Autotune treatment, ever. My only question is WHY?! IMO they would sell just as well without it, as they do not work with people who can't sing.

[Schimpf]

I have only seen Autotune used once on a live show since it was introduced. Obviously some people are using it, but it doesn't seem like the norm at all to me. If someone is a good enough performer to sell thousands (or even hundreds) of tickets they usually don't need AT. I think TV is different, they are trying to control things more and likely feel the need to use AT. I still doubt that the live audiences are hearing AT on Idol..etc. I could be mistaken.

I think AT is a good tool for some people. Most people don't use it as an "on all the time" effect (Kanye does). It's good for fixing small things, it's practical sometimes. The new versions sound much better too.

John

[Unklebunkle]

To be honest about 90% of the artist I like would never have made it through the first round of them talent(less) competitions. In the studio I try everything before auto tune even if it means loosing a client, its not music it's colouring in. I will fox a small part in a amazing take if I know that's THE ONE but that's it. In live sound I never use it (I do grass roots music where uttering AT would not go down well)
It's a bad tool which is stopping a lot of talented singers break through