Comments on Shure VP88 for remote work?

[Jamz]

OP here.
Wow! Thread from the dead. Thanks for the responses.
In fact I was inquiring about the VP88 as originally stated.

Update:
Did not purchase the VP88. Did not purchase the NT4.
As of 12/10 the mics I generally bring on a remote are:
(2) Gefell M295s
(2) Earthworks QTC-1s
(1) Royer SF-12

Happy Holidays fellow Gearslutz

[ullanta]

Originally Posted by panatrope

I have been aiming to test the new Audio Technica BP4025 which has even lower noise (14dbA) and higher output, but I need to confirm how its soundstage and mono compatibility works (novel capsule design and layout) - and unfortunately it does not have self-power capability.

I'd say don't bother... the stereo field is bizarre, and the mic sounds terrible for anything i've tried that has a specific source (e.g., an ensemble on stage). The many good reviews all report only on ambient sound, for which i guess the low noise overpowers accuracy of the stereo field... but this mic makes anything "on-axis" sound really discolored, which leads to not quite a hole in the middle, so much as an ugliness in the middle.

Anyway... looks like it's discontinued now, anyway... short life means big problems? Maybe they'll soon release a phantom balanced version of the 2022, which has a more conventional capsule design, and likely a stereo field that works!

[JEGG]

Since this thread has become active, I'll correct these interesting statements.

Originally Posted by roonsbane

My point is,
Jegg, I believe you are saying the SM80 and SM81 is a pressure design using venting like the Schoeps MK5 to create the various patterns.

No, that is not what I was saying. (Why would I?) The 80 is (was) a pressure capsule. The 81 is a cardioid capsule.

Originally Posted by roonsbane

I said I did not know the design, but it may very well be.

No, it is not, and yes, you don't know the design, and no-it could never very well be.

Originally Posted by roonsbane

If the mic had been designed using...........

We were discussing the mic that is, not the one you are trying to imagine. You've already said you don't know the design, so maybe you should not be commenting on the specifics of the mic; or, least know something-anything!-about the mic before commenting.

[Soundview]

The VP88 offers an onboard battery to handle the phantom duties for both mics, but if you are going to use a mixer for the 48v you need to remember that these are two separate mics and each needs phantom power. I use my VP88 for video a lot as M-S offers mono compatibility. It's also handy for quick jobs where fast setup/take down is a requirement. I have lots of better and more expensive mics, but I frequently reach for this one. It's nice having this mic in my locker.

[eoats]

Early 90s used the Shure VP88 for sound Fx at work, tried to save the company money.
Switched to a Sanken to get something quieter & they weren't as concerned with dollars.

If I were to buy a Stereo mic now I would be looking at the Rode Nt4 or AT BP4025.

[saxmeister]

+1 for the Rode NT4. I've used both the VP88 and the NT4 and think the difference in noise as well as sound is noticeable.

I used the VP88 as a M-S as the front lobe of a modified Decca tree with KM-184s as left/right and some cheap CADs as room/ambient mics and got a big, full, fat sound on a saxophone quartet. I kept the VP88 lower in the mix, but the noise wasn't that noticeable. The KM-184s were definitely brighter and more spatial than the VP88, but together they worked wonders. It helped that the saxes are loud...

I have used the NT4 on guitars, pianos, percussion, etc. and never had a noise issue.

I really think that the VP88 would benefit from higher quality, higher voltage internal components and would knock the noise floor way down with a few simple mods. Overall, it was a good, usable mic. Not incredible, but not bad other than a bit of noise at low levels.

[rcrowley]

I do mostly choral work and some orchestra with choral. I have a VP88 and a Rode NT4 and a Sony ECM-MS5. They are all "single-point stereo" microphones.

The Sony is my favorite for its sound and behavior in different venue acoustics. It is actually made with three cardioid capsules and "steering" electronics for user-switchable angles.

The NT-4 is next although it is heavy, not very "low-profile" and apparently looks vaguely like a weapon to some TSA inspectors.

The VP88 is my least favorite. It is also rather "oversize" and heavy. (I do mostly live performances and prefer to fly mics wherever possible.) But mostly I just don't appreciate the sound I get from it. Perhaps "gritty" is the way to describe it. I prefer not to use it for anything critical.

I also have a pair of Rode NT-5, a pair of Josephson C42, a pair of Oktava MK012 (with all three capsules), and a bunch of other mics (including a pair of ElectroVoice RE-15 which I like a lot.)

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

a pair of ElectroVoice RE-15 which I like a lot

What do you do with those?

[Shureman]

As my handle implies, I'm a big Shure fan. Totally admit to prejudice.
I keep reading in this thread the VP88 being used at a distance. I would submit because of it's self noise, this is the worst possible application. Try it up close, really close, and I think you might rethink its usefulness.

The sample below is a mix of three VP88s, all self powered, into an r16 at a live performance about 3 years ago. Only boosted the bass slightly in the final mixdown. That's it. It's pretty eye opening.

http://www.divshare.com/download/8658576-1b0

[radeng]

Shureman,

Your clip goes waaay out of phase throughout. One of the best features of a M/S recording should be mono compatibility. The side channels were cranked way too high on one or more of your VP88's, this recording would be rejected by most broadcasters.

[Shureman]

Originally Posted by radeng

Shureman,

Your clip goes waaay out of phase throughout. One of the best features of a M/S recording should be mono compatibility. The side channels were cranked way too high on one or more of your VP88's, this recording would be rejected by most broadcasters.

First the Saints lose last night (I'm from New Orleans), now this.

Who said anything about broadcasting? I suppose it's implied by the topic.
Who is listeningto mono FM?
Did you listen to it on a stereo, or just analyze it?

I confess, I'm just an archivist, not a serious broadcast recordist (obviously).
Tell me more about how you would fix (or prevent) the phasing problems. I do occaisionly submit symphony recordings for our local NPR affiliate. I'd like to make their engineers lives as easy as possible.

Any thoughts on the AT4050st?

[radeng]

Originally Posted by Shureman

Who said anything about broadcasting? I suppose it's implied by the topic.
Who is listening to mono FM?

Besides broadcast engineering, I install and service BGM systems in commercial and institutional settings. Speakers down the hallways in medical suites, that sort of thing. Some of them run classical radio stations on them. Nearly all of those kind of installation use 70V mono distributed audio. And there are still millions of mono table radios around.

Did you listen to it on a stereo, or just analyze it?

Yes, I did listen to the clip on my control room monitors besides observing the correlation meter on the console.

I confess, I'm just an archivist, not a serious broadcast recordist (obviously).
Tell me more about how you would fix (or prevent) the phasing problems. I do occaisionly submit symphony recordings for our local NPR affiliate. I'd like to make their engineers lives as easy as possible.

You can avoid phase problems by using a correlation meter or scope (if your console doesn't have one) when making the recording.

As far as fixing, if you recorded the tracks as raw M/S (not using the decoder in the VP88) you can go back and back off the side channels. If you were getting L/R off of the VP88's, you're hosed.

Any thoughts on the AT4050st?

I haven't used one yet, looks interesting.

[Tom McC]

Originally Posted by radeng

As far as fixing, if you recorded the tracks as raw M/S (not using the decoder in the VP88) you can go back and back off the side channels. If you were getting L/R off of the VP88's, you're hosed.

You're not hosed for you can always rematrix in post: LR > MS > L'R'

[radeng]

True, but he's mixing 3 M/S VP88's together. Might get kind of messy. Worth a try.

[renec]

We have a VP88 at the office.

In my experience its pretty noisy for quiet applications, and its pretty heavy to put out at the end of any kind of mount.

With that said, I've made some excellent recordings with the mic when focusing on spot sfx that are moderately loud. stereo imaging is excellent and the tonality in the midrange is very nice. I can see how it would work well as a crowd mic.

Just don't use it for verb tails or at a distance.

[Shureman]

Confession:
90% of my recordings are done with one stereo mic, so I rarely even think about phase issues. Your comments have got me back on track with that, important to me now that I'm doing a bit more multi-mic'ing lately.

So I pluggeed in the divshare download into my Sony Sound Forge, checked the phase scope, and voila, it was as you said,waaaaay out of phase.
Just for the fun of it, I flipped the right channel (still using the divshare download) and the scope looks a hecuva lot better.

Would you guys take a look and see what you think:

Freddie the Freeloader - Playlist - DivShare

The folder has both versions, the flipped version has "fl" at the end of the title. I'd be even more curious if you could tell me which version sounds better.

Thanks for pointing the problem out to me. Any ideas why it happened in the first place?