live jazz recommendation

[duckyboard]

hey guys. im recording a live jazz group later this week and wanted to try some point source recording. in the past ive just set up a a pair of mics but really want to try this out.

!! !

[Remoteness]

Just thinking out loud and only considering the mics you have available I'd do it like this...

Piano (Baby Grand) -- (2) Rode NT5

Sax -- Oktava MK319 (Michael Joly modified)

Trombone -- Shure KSM44

Drum O/H -- Rode NT1A

Snare Drum -- Shure Beta58A

Bass Drum -- Shure SM57

Talkback mic -- AKG C900

What no upright bass player?

[pkautzsch]

57 or beta58 for sax and bone, decide after listening.
Drums should be enough with ONE carefully placed overhead and maybe a kick spot. I mean, you don't need that laaaarge stereo spread from pop/rock drums.
Piano...I'd try the 319 or some sdc - maybe a bright sdc from UNDER the piano somewhere in the middle pointing up. Very dry and jazzish sound. Also have seen and heard two sdcs taped to the frame at the tail end which is bright and direct.
Plus a nice room pair to glue the stuff together. Room pair is always the key, especially for bone.

[duckyboard]

i think i forgot to mention this is a live, on location recording. i won't be able to set up gobos or even have enough time to run a thorough soundcheck.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

57 or beta58 for sax and bone, decide after listening.
Drums should be enough with ONE carefully placed overhead and maybe a kick spot. I mean, you don't need that laaaarge stereo spread from pop/rock drums.
Piano...I'd try the 319 or some sdc - maybe a bright sdc from UNDER the piano somewhere in the middle pointing up. Very dry and jazzish sound. Also have seen and heard two sdcs taped to the frame at the tail end which is bright and direct.
Plus a nice room pair to glue the stuff together. Room pair is always the key, especially for bone.

i think that should be right...

i wouldn't put the condensers on the brass... i'd use them to mic the drums and piano.. and the room mic will help glue the whole thing...

[Remoteness]

What's wrong with using condeners for brass?

[gsilbers]

whats the size of the venue?

if its small youll only need mics for reinforcement and not extreme amplification.


i think i must have a record guiness on the amount of live jazz live sound engineering.
not braggin.. it was hell for me.

but i can tell u , you maybe have too good mics for the gig. ill hate to know that those cool mics could get knocked over by a trombon or sax.

of course set the mics to cardiod or hyper cardiod. and not omni and start getting feedback. same goes for using condenser mics, they are more sensitive and could brake from a string blow from a sax or bone.. but who knows.

but ill be worried a little more on the stage monitors. boy , do those cats get pissy if they dont hear enough of themselves on the monitors.


try and see if u can get more sm57/58s and use them insead of the cool mics u listed.

but, its not rocket science. you are just reinforcing the sound not making a record so keep levels right and whatch out for feedback.

[duckyboard]

there are no monitors or sound reinforcement. this is strictly a live acoustic jazz show that i will be recording.

im not worried about things getting knocked over, and dont have to worry about monitors.

thanks for the input so far

[Barnabas]

Definitely a room mic, or pair for recording jazz. You want to capture the whole ensemble with as few mics as possible.

Best would be a stereo pair where an imaginary conductor would be standing. If they are a good jazz band, they will be mixing themselves.

Spot mics could bring add a little presence for instruments that need it.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

Definitely a room mic, or pair for recording jazz. You want to capture the whole ensemble with as few mics as possible.

I agree that you want to avoid too many mics. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of dedicated room mics for small group jazz recordings.

Because there will be no isolation, all of the mics used will become room mics. A close mic on a saxophone or piano will still pick up room ambience and leakage from other instruments.

My recommendation:

1 mic on the saxophone
1 mic on trombone
1 drum OH (or positioned to pick up the entire drumset)
a second drum mic positioned to pickup extra high-hat "chip" but aimed a bit at the snare.
1 mic on the bass (I must assume there will be a bass player)
and 1 or 2 mics on the piano.

Finally, mix the thing as if you're standing in front of the band at the venue. (as opposed to panned piano and drums like you might for a more produced "larger-than-life" sound)

[duckyboard]

thanks andy. thats really what i was leaning towards.

i think im a bit worried about phase issues....

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by duckyboard

thanks andy. thats really what i was leaning towards.

i think im a bit worried about phase issues....

Ahh, phase issues. This is why studio engineers want to blanket off the piano, throw the drummer in a closet and use a pickup on an ACOUSTIC bass! They don't know how to record a band, only individual instruments.

It is the remote engineer that understands how to record a live ensemble, and part of that is to understand how mic placement and directional panning (in the mix) will effect phase problems.

I always try to avoid the back lobe of a mic to point at a capsule of another mic. Too many ribbons or other figure-8 pattern mics can make this difficult. If you angle your mics so the back lobe is pointed up to the ceiling, you'll avoid this problem.

Anyway, I would proceed with the recording in the manner I described in my previous post and go with Steve Remotes mic suggestions, either way you can't go wrong.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

i'm a huge fan of Ahmed Jamal's "Live at the Perishing"

maybe that's my favourite Live Jazz recording with piano..

i'm just saying