Rackmount Line Mixer

[Gerax]

Hi

I'm new to this board, but it got me immediately, I think I'll be around, hope it doesn't bother...

OK, I do a fair amount of location (or is remote?) recordings of small classical duos, trios, quartet etc (but I did a few large orchestras as well) and I assembled a portable rack composed of mic preamps, my 24 TRKs HD recorder and a small "crappy " line mixer to monitor the performance; this is where my rig flaws: the monitoring; I wasn't able to find a good quality rackmount line mixer able to accept line returns from the multitrack that could allow me to mix them down to stereo for monitoring and running a backup 2track mix.

Any ideas on a 16 or 24 inputs line mixer with just level and pan (maybe an Aux send), a stereo out and a headphone amp, no EQs, or other fancy features...ah and I forgot, clean and good sounding .

Thax for your feedback

L.G.

[Remoteness]

Welcome to the board L.G. I trust you'll stay around for a while. I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions.

Forum note: Remember to set your thread viewing to "the beginning" so you can see ALL our posts from the start.

What kind of mic pres and HD recorder do you use? Since you didn't mention a budget, my choice is not based on any special price point.

ATI (AudioToys.com) makes a great little rack mount unit that's only 1U. It has 8 high-voltage mic preamps. They each have a 41 position detented trim control, 41 position detented adjustable limiter,
41 position mix level pot, a pan pot, 48V phantom power and a phase reverse switch. Two or three of these babies will pack a big punch in only 2 to 3 rack spaces.
Very clean and the quality is awesome. This would be a great monitoring and backup 2mix setup even if you don't use their killer mic pres.

[Remoteness]

Lorenzo,

If money is no object, the Millennia Media, "Mix Suite" is the ultimate answer to your 2mix issues. I love it very much! It's a modular, rack mounted portable analog mixer offering a variety of modules of uncompromised quality and sound.

The unit is 100% compatible with George Massenburg's GML HRT9100 Mixing System.

[Remoteness]

OK, so money maybe an issue...

There are a couple of cool options. Here's one of them.

Speck! Vince and his crew make great products at the right economics.
I haven't heard their new high-definition desktop analog line mixer, but the LILO seems like a very cool box. Check it out here>>> Speck's LILO mixer.

[Gerax]

Hi Remoteness

Thanx for the warm welcome and for your reply.

Currently my location setup is composed by a Focusrite Octopre, Focusrite ISA 428 (still to be delivered to my front door, I'm waiting...), Mackie SDR2496 HD recorder, Sony PCMR300 DAT and the aforementioned crappy 16ch line mixer, all in a rolling 8 RU shock rack. I do all of the post work in my Pro Tools studio.

A couple of thoughts: I knew the ATI 8MX2, and I was eager to try one out, but there's something with the Italian dealer that's preventing the availability here, hope they fix it; it would be cool in that even if it's only 8 channels, and there are situations where I need more, there is a way to link them to create a big 24 ch - three rackspaces tracking/mixing device. That would be the solution to all my problems, though a costly one, they are selling it for $2995, multiply it x 3 and...; as for the other mixers...they are way cool, but a bit out of my range, and most imporatnt far too big to fit in my mobile rig, currently I lug everything around on my own to the gigs...maybe a few years down the road my business will be grown enough to get an assistant .

I just emaild ATI to see how I can manage the thing; the only other solution I think could fit my bill would be to have somebody custom build one for me.

Thanx for the moment for your suggestions

L.G.

[Bastiaan]

Hey Gerax....remember me from the DUC?


I found this: http://www.innovativemusic.com.au/Pr....htm?mam.htm&2

but its actually cheaper then that. At www.thomann.de they sell this for 198 euro (that includes 20% vat but excludes shipping).

Mam also has line-mixers that have less channels but more options (like eq, sends etc...)

[Gerax]

Hi Bastiaan

Glad to see you here too...small world the internet isn't it?

I checked out the link you posted (thanx) but it seems that those line mixer aren't available in 16 or 24 ch combinations, I already have the possibility to have 8 stereo pairs (or 8 mono ch or various in-between combinations) with the crappy B****gher I have now, but probably the quality of those MAM mixers is higher, I'll check their site out and look for the prices at Thomann (which BTW is becoming my main gear dealer...).

Thanx for the post I'll let you know what I find out.

See you around (or on the DUC)

L.G.

P.S. : I'm about to invest in a Matrox Parhelia for a big A/V post work I'm starting with my PT LE system, any feedback on that?

[jbuntz]

No mention of API or Aurora Audio?

[Buddhaman]

Guys....the Lilo is cool and all but its not rack mountable...

I have the exact same dilemma....I track into a Tascam Mx2424 and am currently monitoring through a huge Yamaha PM-1000.

Instead of a crappy line mixer I am currently considering

1/ a Yamaha 01v96 (24 ch Adat out of the MX to an 01v96 headphone mix) (about $1800 from AltoMusic in NY)

2/ Speck Xtramix (new $2.5k; they've been showing up on ebay for around $1250 lately)

3/ the api 8200 (x3) into a 7800 master module (like $6k total)

4/ Manley 16x2 line mixer ($7K)

I'm finding its hard to get 24 channel summing that is both high quality and rack mountable...and the problem with the API and Millenia and Manley stuff is if I'm gonna spend $6 or $7k on a mixer I want it to be my main mixer with faders and EQ etc....

Am I missing any other productos?

Buddhaman

[dynamo]

Ciao Lorenzo, come va in Italia ?
If you are on a limited budget you may want to check also:
RANE SM82 or the ASHLY LX mixer

ASHLY LX MIXER RANE SM 82

[Remoteness]

Hey Dynamo,

The Rane and Ashly line mixer look like the perfect tool for Gerax's budget.

Good call my man!

[Gerax]

Hi Guys

Thanx for the replys.

I checked out your suggestions, and though they surely are good quality the problems always remain the same: both the Ashly and the Rane (that I already had checked out) are 8Ch mixer that can function as 16 ch, but only for stereo pairs: if you connect 16 line returns to them you cannot pan and level adjust them separately, but only as stereo pairs, where the pan acts as a balance control of the two mono signals of the pair, and you know this is not convenient when trying to monitor a full band performance, more so when I use a main stereo overhead mic to record together with the spot mics; I already can achieve this number of channels with the crappy Behringer I have now (OK, don't laugh, I was in a hurry and needed to have something availablegrudge ), yes, I could upgrade just for the sake of better quality, but I definitely want to spend my money once; if only one of those manufacturer would do a little more flexible one...I'd jump right in...still searching...

All for now

Thanx a lot for the replys though, Hey Dynamo, how comes that you speak Italian my buddy?

L.G.

[Gerax]

How Dumb I am

I red the description of both the Ashly and the Rane better and fuond out that both can be multi-linked to create a 2RU 16 to 32 ch mixer....very good solution, I may check in in one of those...great tip my friends thumbsup

L.G.

[Dave Martin]

At the risk of sounding low rent, you could look at the Mackie 32M:. 16 stereo pairs that can be used as mono inputs. I have one, and it works fine for my needs (which is a portable 16 track recording set-up with 2 DA-88's; record through outboard preamps, monitor through the Mackie).

[Albert]

I have a few Mackie LM-3204's myself. They are quite handy and can be found rather cheap these days. A nice feature is that if you use it with 16 stereo inputs, the pan knob functions as a balance control (which is what you don't want), but if you use it as a 16 mono input mixer the pan knobs work as true pans. (i.e. one input per each stereo channel strip-it's designed to be used that way too).

[jeronimo]

Do you guys think the Ashly could be used as a summing mixer for a daw?

[Ari]

Hello Everyone !

I'm new here and not a specialist. I know I gonna love this place...

I have a question: In terms of audio quality, what is the difference between a Lilo line mixer and a Midas Venice 160? What defines a "high-definition analog line mixer"? Is Venice also high-definition ?

I thank you for your patience thumbsup

Greetings from Brasília

Ari

[jeronimo]

The Venice are very good consoles!!!!

[Ari]

Thanks jeronimo !!!

Axé bichinho...

Best from

Ari

[Remoteness]

I wish Midas would make a Venice480!

We're strapping two Venice320s for a 48 mono / 8 stereo channel setup. Usually in a monitoring / mixing situation. IMO, it's the best sounding mixer in the price range.

[Ari]

Hey Remoteness !!

Venice is good in any size huh ?

Can you tell me how Midas Venice and Lilo compares sonic-wise, if they have *any* comparision...

Best

Ari

[Remoteness]

Ari,

Stand alone, all Venice mixers sound good. The 240 and 320's are better then the 160 in one important detail. You can add an external power supply which will improve the sound and headroom of the mixer.

I haven't heard the Lilo. Is it shipping yet? Anyway, you really can't compare the two. The Lilo is designed for people that already have their own outboard gear. Check the "Speck Lilo" link in one of my earlier posts.

Speck makes good stuff. I can't wait to check it out.

[Ari]

Thanks Remoteness !!

I should go Midas that is easy in Brasil but I will have to wait a bit.

Have a nice week man !!

Best

Ari

[GYang]

After trying several options, IMO rules in small line mixer department.
Right set of features, high resolution, good price.

[XLR2XLR]

Maybe I am wrong but paying 10K or other rather large amounts of cash for a 24 channel line mixer with rotary knobs seem ludicrous.

You are never going to do a live mix properly on one of those and it should not be used as a back up 2 track either IMO. Remember you should actually be looking that your recorders are actually recording IMO.

Unless you are in a van or another room far away from the stage you will get a better back up off the FOH desk !

You will need to be riding faders to do a mix that is going to be a "oh ok the multitrack failed youve got the 2 track back up and it sounds great!" kind of acceptability and a 10K knob box is not going to cut it.

I would think cheap and cheerful for monitoring and run a full multitrack back up recorder and mix it later.

[joelpatterson]

I've been troubled by the same "back-up" strategies i've seen, myself... how could anyone in good conscience contract for a multi-tracked production, and then in the event of some unforseen failure turn in a live, 2-track back-up mix?

"Better than nothing"? Really?

[XLR2XLR]

You would do better to have long cables and 2 Mackie 1604's together with 60mm faders than a high end knob box IMO. (in a room out back or even an untreated small van and a set of JBL control 1's !!!!!!)

Sometimes I get the impression some people tout high end gear without understanding what needs to be achieved.

[initself]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Speck! Vince and his crew make great products at the right economics.

I was salivating at the pictures, until I looked at the price list! Out of my range!

Speck Electronics - LiLo Line Mixer

[Remoteness]

Perhaps a used Speck is in your future.

[ghellquist]

Suggestion: the Presonus StudioLive 16:4:2. Rack mountable, sort of. I recently got one and find it to be a kind of swiss knife for doing various things. It has decent analog circuits and can interface directly with a laptop or similar to do the backup recording of all 16 channels. My plan is using my Mac Mini without keyboard or screen and control it from an iPad, this will allow me on the few occasions when needed to control PA mixes from the room as well.

// Gunnar