Digital Audio over a Whirlwind MASS cable?

gpcramseysoral · 17th November 2006

I'm designing a rig for an installation job. I've decided to use Whirlwinds MASS cables (56 channel) instead of an e-snake. I still need to be able to have digital (aes to be exact) at the stage. Is it possible to do this over a mass cable?

Also can someone direct me to a website that has some pricing for the various components of a MASS system (Preferably Sale Prices).

Thanks

Jim vanBergen · 17th November 2006

While you CAN transmit AES/EBU over standard XLR, may I please suggest you look into a proper cable designed for digital audio that has the proper impedance?

EVERY manufacturer (whirlwind included) should be able to discuss digital options over copper. If this is one or two pairs of AES, why not pull a few extra lines of cable and terminate them at both sides when the copper is pullled?

Sorry if I re-directed your thread...really, just trying to help.

gpcramseysoral · 17th November 2006

No that's is fine, I guess in a round about way that's what I wanted to know. I guess the real question is how much would it drive up the cost if I were to have them use cable rated for digital audio. I'd guess a lot! I can work around that by doing what you said. I just didn't want to pass up an obvious solution.

Anyway, any idea where I could go to start gathering some pricing? I don't want to contact Whirlwind because I’m on a deadline and could use some answers in short order. Also I'd rather have a good idea of price before I start asking for quotes.

Best

gpcramseysoral · 17th November 2006

Also Jim, I think I remember reading that you have some background in locking live audio systems to video. I on the other hand have no experience just some basic theory. If I were to post a diagram of the system would you take a look at it and let me know if i'm on the right track?

Best

mpdonahue · 17th November 2006

It would probably make more sense to pull a couple of ethernet cables. We regularly pull 4 pairs of AES 96k 24 bit over a single 500' piece of belden 1592A.
We also tried the Hear Extreme extenders and get 1000 feet of 8 channel 48k with no problems.
Ethernet cable is actually 4x 110 ohm twisted pairs.
I've tested AES 48k over two 1000' spools of Mediatwist 1875GA with no problems. The real issue is to limit the number of connections in the chain.
The one caveat is that we've gone to great lengths to make sure any piece of gear we buy has proper transformer coupled AES i/o. This will not work reliably with electronically balanced AES.
All the best,
Mark

ps. 1000' of 1592A is the princely sum of $136.00. The good stuff, 1875GA is a whopping $260.

bishopthomas · 17th November 2006

http://1staudiousa.com/multi012.html

This is the only web site I've found with pricing, and I'm not sure how current it is. Are you completely sold on MASS connectors? For an installation I would probably go with something less rugged (aka pricey). It may be better for you to spend the money on digital cable than to invest in the MASS connectors.

Jim vanBergen · 17th November 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpcramseysoral

Also Jim, I think I remember reading that you have some background in locking live audio systems to video. I on the other hand have no experience just some basic theory. If I were to post a diagram of the system would you take a look at it and let me know if i'm on the right track?

Best

Sure bro. Post the diagram on a new thread, we'll all have a look.
jim

gpcramseysoral · 17th November 2006

Cool, thanks Jim i'm working on it now. I had to leave my office so I don't have access to a scanner. I'll try and take a picture with my digital cam. If it looks like crap i'll post it first thing tomorrow.

Thanks, again all

By the way i'm considering all options put forth here so don't that I take your suggustions for granted!

gatekeeper · 19th November 2006

I actually found some mass connectors pretty cheap on ebay. Don't know the quality, but the guys feedback is pretty good. Check it out, only problem is that it's the soldering type.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Whirlwind-W4-Com...QQcmdZViewItem

bishopthomas · 19th November 2006

Dang, you blew it! They're mine, all mine!

gpcramseysoral · 19th November 2006

Cool, thanks!

**Remoteness** · 19th November 2006

Cool, now let's all go and run those prices sky high.

17th November 2006	#1
gpcramseysoral Gear nut Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 97 Thread Starter	Digital Audio over a Whirlwind MASS cable? I'm designing a rig for an installation job. I've decided to use Whirlwinds MASS cables (56 channel) instead of an e-snake. I still need to be able to have digital (aes to be exact) at the stage. Is it possible to do this over a mass cable? Also can someone direct me to a website that has some pricing for the various components of a MASS system (Preferably Sale Prices). Thanks

17th November 2006	#2
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,562	Back up there, hoss. While you CAN transmit AES/EBU over standard XLR, may I please suggest you look into a proper cable designed for digital audio that has the proper impedance? EVERY manufacturer (whirlwind included) should be able to discuss digital options over copper. If this is one or two pairs of AES, why not pull a few extra lines of cable and terminate them at both sides when the copper is pullled? Sorry if I re-directed your thread...really, just trying to help.

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17th November 2006	#5
mpdonahue Gear addict Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 495	It would probably make more sense to pull a couple of ethernet cables. We regularly pull 4 pairs of AES 96k 24 bit over a single 500' piece of belden 1592A. We also tried the Hear Extreme extenders and get 1000 feet of 8 channel 48k with no problems. Ethernet cable is actually 4x 110 ohm twisted pairs. I've tested AES 48k over two 1000' spools of Mediatwist 1875GA with no problems. The real issue is to limit the number of connections in the chain. The one caveat is that we've gone to great lengths to make sure any piece of gear we buy has proper transformer coupled AES i/o. This will not work reliably with electronically balanced AES. All the best, Mark ps. 1000' of 1592A is the princely sum of $136.00. The good stuff, 1875GA is a whopping $260.

17th November 2006	#6
bishopthomas Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,565	http://1staudiousa.com/multi012.html This is the only web site I've found with pricing, and I'm not sure how current it is. Are you completely sold on MASS connectors? For an installation I would probably go with something less rugged (aka pricey). It may be better for you to spend the money on digital cable than to invest in the MASS connectors.

19th November 2006	#9
gatekeeper Gear Head Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 67	I actually found some mass connectors pretty cheap on ebay. Don't know the quality, but the guys feedback is pretty good. Check it out, only problem is that it's the soldering type. http://cgi.ebay.com/Whirlwind-W4-Com...QQcmdZViewItem

19th November 2006	#12
Remoteness Super Moderator Joined: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,405	Cool, now let's all go and run those prices sky high.