Which mic is best for clarinet.....

[XLR2XLR]

I have Audix i5, Senn MD421, SM57, SP B1, SE1A, BETA57, Beyer M201

Would dynamic be normal or condenser?

it's being recorded in a largish room as an overdub
not at a live concert, just a band recording in a room

Many Thanks : )

[classicalrecord]

hate to state the obvious, but if it's an overdub then you've got time to just try out a bunch and figure out which one works best. beyond that, it depends on the sound you're going for for the album-- mellow or something that will cut through a mix a bit.
good luck.

[Jim Easton]

Straight soprano sax and clarinet can be a challenge. Don't mic these at the bell when using a single mic. Use the mic and stand in the same position as you would have it for alto or tenor sax. The mic should be about 6" to 12" above the middle of the body of the soprano sax or clarinet.

I would use a condenser mic to get the full body of the clarinet. Normally with a wind instrument such as a sax you would want to use your Sennheiser or dynamic mic because of the volume level of the instrument.

I use a condenser on clarinet with very good results-!!

Regards
-jim

[XLR2XLR]

Thanks Maybe I try my Studio Projects B1
But yes I might have some time to try out some differing mics.

Thanks again.

[fifthcircle]

To be honest, as a clarinetist, none of those mics would give me a sound that I'd like very much. The SP and SE mics would be closest probably, but they are going to have a sound that will be easy to get brittle and will emphasize that which most clarinetists don't want to hear (ie reed noise, key noise, etc...).

The dynamics are a possibility, but once again there, I prefer to go for a 441 instead of a 421 because of its smooth sound versus the mid range knarl that the 421 shows. I've never tried a 201- it may sound ok, though...

Anyways, with whatever you use, you need to be careful of your positioning. Whatever you do, do NOT ever put a microphone near the bell. The best sound on a clarinet generally comes from above the instrument as the sound radiates out. I'll generally start at about head height and 2-3 feet out. Angle the mic towards the middle of the instrument from that point. If you angle up towards the mouthpiece, you'll get a brighter sound (a bit thinner), towards the bell a darker sound (and a bit less distinct.).

Good luck!

--Ben

[Curtis Franklin]

positioning makes much more of a difference than the type of mic.

if it is an overdub you can get pretty far away and not have to worry about seperation.

try this:
1: take the least color cardioid mic and hold it in your hand
2: move it around while the person is playing.
3: put the mic where you like it the best
4: hit record with plenty of time left for beer

[XLR2XLR]

Thanks for further replies, as far as distant micing I want mainly
Clarinet and not clarinet and loads of room acoustic
as I cannot be sure of the exact acoustic I will be recording in.

The M201 is quite a smooth and flatish dynamic mic with a smooth and gentle
rise from around 5 Khz rather than a honky large 3-6K presence peak.

It's the closest I can get to a MD441 without having 441 cash available
budget is zero so I have to use what I have.

Thanks again I will try B1 and M201 and move them around thanks for the miking
from above tip !

[Han]

The 201 will do quite good, been there done that.

[Remoteness]

I'm with Han, if I had to pick from your list I also would use the M201.

[Han]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I'm with Han, if I had to pick from your list I also would use the M201.

Ya see? Steve's with me!

The 421 is too bright and too hot, the 57's don't sound too good in the first place :D I don't know the SE and the Audix and the B1 sounds a little like my nose when I've catched a cold, on horns and winds that is. (grain of salt of course)

The MD441 would be a great choice but you don't have one.

That leaves the M201 as the best choice, its a pretty smooth sounding hyper cardioid with a nice off axis response.

You know what really sounds great as well? A ribbon like the Beyer M160.

[Windshore]

As another woodwind player, I think fifthcircle has it right. None are going to be great. If it's a jazz piece you can mic a bit closer, but you'll see that if you're closer than about 18" the sound and volume will be very uneven throughout the range of the instrument. Further back is better, even if you have to deal with a little room sound, it's better than having some notes jump out at you and others muted.

Borrow a good mic... or ask the player if he has one he prefers....

[XLR2XLR]

Thanks all I will borrow an M201 from my workplace.
Very helpful of you all and I will truly bear in mind the
proximity and make some judgements.

[fifthcircle]

FWIW, it is my opinion that when micing a clarinet, 2-3 feet away is still close micing. If you get the mic too close, it will not sound right. You may get something that resembles a clarinet, but it won't be right. I've posted this link once or twice, but this is an album that I recorded a couple years back. Used 4 mics on 4 players- KSM44's on clarinet and guitar, and KM184's on drums and bass. The clarinet and bass went through a Grace Lunatec and everything else went through a Digi001. It turned out pretty well- everybody was happy.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/russreinberg

My point is that the clarinet mic here is at least 3 feet out from the instrument and it sounds plenty present. We recorded in a garage, but it was a pretty natural sound.

--Ben

[taturana]

i use two oktava mkl-2500 mics for clarinet
one on the bottom aiming 90degrees across the mouth of the bell
and another one more spaced to the other side aiming below the mouthpiece.

[fifthcircle]

I know a lot of folks like 2 mic setups for recording wind instruments, but as a wind player, I've never heard a realistic sounding recording that uses 2 mics. If you can't get it done well with one, your mic is either the wrong one or in the wrong place.

--Ben

[Curtis Franklin]

unless you are talking about a stereo pair, then they sound even more realistic.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

I know a lot of folks like 2 mic setups for recording wind instruments, but as a wind player, I've never heard a realistic sounding recording that uses 2 mics. If you can't get it done well with one, your mic is either the wrong one or in the wrong place.

--Ben

Ben, I understand your point of view and agree that a single mic should be enough. But I have done solo flute and solo oboe recordings with two ribbons in blumlein which showed off a) the stereo image, b) great (& flattering) detail of the instrument, as well as c) a great room tone. You could only have gotten B with a single mic. This is only my POV, I'm interested in hearing more!

Jim

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Ben, I understand your point of view and agree that a single mic should be enough. But I have done solo flute and solo oboe recordings with two ribbons in blumlein which showed off a) the stereo image, b) great (& flattering) detail of the instrument, as well as c) a great room tone. You could only have gotten B with a single mic. This is only my POV, I'm interested in hearing more!

Jim

Jim I agree with you 100 percent! You hear the world with two ears... so in order to represent spatial cues, depth, imaging, etc, correctly, you MUST use a stereo pair (whether recording an ensemble or soloist)!!

HOWEVER, if you are spot-micing within an ensemble that is being recorded with a stereo pair, a single mic will do.

But for close-micing, I tend to always go for a stereo pair (Blumlein or XY) if I have enough mic pres.

Yes, it's a little more work, and you must ensure that you have no phase issues. But you'll find that all your instruments will be "bigger" and richer this way. Especially acoustic bass...

OK, so I've gone off on a rant here... and drifted off topic a bit... sorry!

[fifthcircle]

If I was recording a wind instrument a solo, I would likely use a stereo pair in the room in a standard classical setup...

However, if you look at the original post, it was specifically mentioned that this is for an overdub. In this situation, I absolutely stick to a single mic for the instrument. In similar situations where the instrument may be a solo with an ensemble, I'm still going to go with a single mic. In the case of an ensemble, you'll usually have a set of mics as over-all pickups that determine image of the group. Your spot mics are usually single points in the image.

We are talking apples and oranges situations here...

--Ben

[taturana]

well about this question of using one or two microphones... i´d say i always use a stereo pair, even for overdubs. and sometimes (on soprano sax that is) i use a third, normally a dynamic (like a senn md421 or e906) straight on the bell for a honkier sound ...

not all mics will be at same level, or pan, some mic tracks wont even be used at mixtime, but sometime i´d rather record 4 tracks of microphones (even if i am not going to use them later) to get the specific sound i´m after...

on flute and sax soprano a small condenser aiming at the mouthpiece and a tube LDC at mid distance (40cm) for ambience and you do get an awesome sound... defined and fulll bodied.

i definitely like to multi mic woodwinds...

[peeder]

I'd use a ribbon unless I wanted a breathy sound, in which case, the same condenser that I'd use for vocals. I've used a 4060 on clarinet but I wasn't in love with it; it worked.

I have a pair of 201's and they wouldn't be awful; I might even use them before the 441. I might use the SM7 before either. Depends on the material, register, the player's tone, etc.

[saxplayer]

Hi,

I am a jazz clarinet player and have only had luck getting a good clarinet sound using 2 mics. I have a noisy house so cardiod condensor and a dynamic seem to reject the sounds of the furnace and computer drives pretty well.

Here are the mics:

- AKG c409 Dynamic - Clip On (I clip it to a music stand)
- Rhode NT1-A - Shock Mounted.

I am not really a gear slut but, I know what I like for sound. The clip titled "Nuages" includes my microphone setup and recording.

Here is the myspace page with the nuages clip: MySpace.com - Hot House Jazz - BROOKFIELD, Wisconsin - www.myspace.com/hothousejazz1

Cheers,
J.