How do you get into Classical recording?

[arpodthegreat]

I am in school (liberal arts college, BARD in NY) and have been recording when i have the time at school and at home. i have mainly done rock/fold type recordings. i have interned at some studios and when i get out of school i plan on trying to become a recording engineer in LA (where i'm from). at school i have recorded quite a few classical student concerts. just stereo straight to CD. I really have begun to enjoy this and i was wondering how to get into this on a proffesional level once i leave school. i really want to pursue a career engineering contemporary pop/indie/rock music but i would like to also do classical jobs as well. any sugestions?
T.Ray i expect you will chime in and i look forward to your response.

[rwhitney]

One way to build a reputation is to record choirs. You can increase your income if you also do the duplication and cover art, or at least handle that for them. With the number of members of any given choir, your reputation can grow exponentially. Also try chamber music groups and series, community orchestras, etc., where they are always in need of recordings. The only way I know of is through word of mouth, though hooking up as an assistant to an established pro is also very helpful. That's a matter of personality, reliability, and competance, but after awhile you'll be standing in for the other and you'll be off and away. Also, leave your info. with venues like concert halls and churches. You never know when the regular might not be available.

In classical, the real trick is production knowledge, and some engineers are also producers. IOW, they are respected for their knowledge of the music, study recordings and scores for performance issues, follow along with scores during the session, and help guide the musicians through the performance. I think this usually begins with a repected performing career, but demonstrated knowledge and shared taste will not go unnoticed.

I'm not a pro engineer myself, but I've helped out a few over the years and this is the impression I've gotten.

[T.RayBullard]

Hey bud, I am by no means anything but a peon here, but I got in originally as a way to do my own voice demos(I am a classical singer)..as studios were VERY expensive, and as a poor college student, I didn't have the dough to drop 500 bucks every time I wanted to do a 3 song CD. I didn't know anything back then, and bought some studio in a box type thing and some horrible microphones. anyway..after going wild in my younger years , and blowing all the money that I made from singing gigs and voice over jobs on well..lets say..not the best things, I joined the Army to get some focus. Came in as an infantryman(11 bravo), and did that for a good while, did the whole Iraq/afghan thing, kosovo, Macedonia, Bosnia, turkey, saw a lot of messed up stuff, a lot of killing, so what followed was truly Heaven Sent...at any rate..one day I was sitting in the dental chair , waiting to get some work done, and I saw on AFN(Armed Forces Network) that the US Army Europe Band was looking for Vocalists..so that afternoon I asked my 1st Line Supervisor to let me go audition, and I got the gig Occasionally singing with that group and overseeing Operational Details for the band, working on country clearances, Room and Board, arranging Logistical Support, etc.. ..anyway, some years back at a performance of Tristan und Isolde(Mannheim Opera) I met an older gentleman(Armin Brauer) who was a recording engineer, became good friends with him, and started developing a rabid obsession with recording again, this was after another bout with Drinking which I blamed on all the deployments and such, but was really just a product of my weak mind......I began reading every recording related book I could get my hands on, started listening heavily to recordings to see if I could figure out how they got certain sounds, , and studied hard with one of the Local Classical engineers here, who took me under his wing and really busted my balls until I could handle a small task without looking like a moron...i started helping him with gigs, but eventually he let me go out on my own, and it kept on from there.I still talk to him weekly and he still busts my chops every time an opportunity presents itself(which is often )Of course ,in the scheme of things, I am a mental midget , recording-wise..but I am to the point where I can know what to look and listen for and pretty much always get a good result. I still email or call and hound all the big guys for info(Tony Faulkner, Kavi Alexander, Simon Eadon, Jan Erik Persson, many others)..I am quite shameless in that regard. ..and that will never ever stop. I believe that young guys have a real responsibility to seek these older guys out and pick their brains so that we can carry on the work that they have established. There are a lot of young guys that think they know it all and are quite disrespectful to the elders(I have seen it happen more than once that some random joe sixpack will address someone like Kavi Alexander (whom I consider to be a genius and Jedi)with complete and total arrogance,, and I hate to see that. I have been blessed with being able to get some good gigs here in Germany, and have really grown quite a bit, even though there are many, many more miles to go. Most of all, I am happy that I have a insatiable hunger to keep learning more and more, to stuff every bit of knowledge I come across inside of my mind.. I really know what sort of sound I want to get, and certainly which sounds and recordings that I do not care for. With singing I often get burned out, and even though I am still a singer, and will always be..I have to take a break from it at times, whereas with recording I never get bored. I have a really nice potential gig on the horizon when I get back to the states, and I am hoping more than anything that it works out. It would be a real dream come true to do this for a living, you know? I mean, I do it now, but it would be awesome to do it as an ONLY gig..I have to say too that one thing that has been an amazing help to me is the fact that I have a music degree(vocal performance). it has helped tremendously with interpretation...I always carry the conductors score with me to the gig so that I can stay a step ahead of the ensemble and keep abreast of any Dynamic or Tonal Changes. One thing that I am about to do(that I am very new at) is start mixing down to 2 track. This will force me to really know what I am doing as I wont have that safety net of a multitrack(I still will record to multitrack, but I am going to try and pretend that it isnt there ).

by the way, if you ever want to borrow any of my books(which are all quite dog-eared) you are more than welcome to. I also have 3 or 4 binders full of internet documents, cut and pasted email quotes about recording from guys I look up to...etc. i am quite the nerd and packrat when it comes to collecting info..i will be glad to send you copies of that as well.

I also thank God that tommorow is my last work day in the Army!! I sign my final documents tommorow, I have a week of doing nothing, and then it is on a plane back to the Good old USA..I cannot wait! Europe has been amazing, but has lost it's lustre, I must say.

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

I am in school (liberal arts college, BARD in NY) and have been recording when i have the time at school and at home. i have mainly done rock/fold type recordings. i have interned at some studios and when i get out of school i plan on trying to become a recording engineer in LA (where i'm from). at school i have recorded quite a few classical student concerts. just stereo straight to CD. I really have begun to enjoy this and i was wondering how to get into this on a proffesional level once i leave school. i really want to pursue a career engineering contemporary pop/indie/rock music but i would like to also do classical jobs as well. any sugestions?
T.Ray i expect you will chime in and i look forward to your response.

[resound]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

I joined the Army to get some focus.

You've acquired that gear collection on an Army salary? No wonder our defense spending is so high!

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by VukOnCrack

You've acquired that gear collection on an Army salary? No wonder our defense spending is so high!

A lot of my gear was funded with my 30,000 dollar enlistment bonus. thumbsup In my geographical area, there were not a lot of recruits, so I got what was called an "area enlistment bonus" , and an "infantry" bonus(because not many people were crazy/stupid enough to sign up for that job..they took the "smart" jobs like Computers, Intel, etc..but i saw the potential to have a lot of fun, and get a nice sum of money in the process(of course at that time I had no idea what was in store )., and a time in service bonus(signing up for 6 years rather than the standard 2)..it is a really clever strategy..got me hook line and sinker!


of course my wife will not let me buy anything with my normal paycheck(other than the bonus) so any gear has to come from revenue outside of the army. im stocked up for now, dont need or want anything else.

[mrufino1]

What a great story, very inspirational! Congratulations to you, and I mean that. And it is also good to know I am not the only one who buys every book and cuts out articles, etc. Good luck when you get back- what area of the US are you from?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by mrufino1

What a great story, very inspirational! Congratulations to you, and I mean that. And it is also good to know I am not the only one who buys every book and cuts out articles, etc. Good luck when you get back- what area of the US are you from?

Thanks my friend. I am from wilmington, NC. Been a southern boy all my life. My family is made up of all blue collar, manual labor type folks. Farmers, Brick Masons, Construction workers, etc. My folks live right in the heart of tobacco country.

[resound]

Now if only I could get that 30k bonus without having to enlist... especially a wife-friendly 30k. Ah, to dream....

[fifthcircle]

I got into classical recording while pursuing my BM at the Eastman School of Music up in Upstate New York.

I recognized that I could earn more recording recitals than working in the dining center or as an usher (the top 2 jobs at ESM when I was there). There were roughly 2000 concerts a year going on there which leads to fertile ground for work. I bought a pair of mics and a little console and just started doing it (a pair of SM-81s and a Mackie1202 if you must know). When I'd go to summer music festivals, I'd do recording work as a work-study job.

By the time I got back to LA for my Masters (once again in Performance- this time at USC), I knew a lot about my small area of expertise. When I got in town, I ended up hooking up with a couple engineers and over 3 or 4 years, I apprenticed. I learned a huge amount about multi-mic setups, editing, mastering, etc... all while living on student loans and whatever small sums of money I could scrape together from various gigs/jobs.

Now, things are going pretty well, but it has taken several years of hard work to get here. I spend a lot on equipment, but I'm finally at the point where I can start to slow down with my capital purchases. I own what I need for 80% of the work I do and the rest is provided by area rental houses. If the client can't pay for the rental, they simply don't get it.

The 2 things that have gotten me more clients than anything else- the contacts I made at USC whose word of mouth have given me work and the contacts I made while apprenticing. Covering gigs for my colleagues has helped get me known around town. I don't take gigs that "belong" to somebody else, but early on, it helped lend credibility to my work.

As far as the one skill that has helped my work more than anything- my musical background. Knowing what it is like to perform in the ensembles that I record. I draw upon my years performing in chamber music, orchestras, jazz groups, etc... (and I still perform when possible). Learning about a preamp/mic placement is pretty easy, but you need to know what the music is supposed to sound like and how it is put together.

--Ben

[Plush]

Basically, I think that you just start doing it for whomever will let you record them.
Often a college environment is perfect for this. Try to get on the student recording staff and do every recital of every different type you can find.

Get a basic set-up with really good mics and grow from there.

To assist your ear in learning about balances do a ton of listening to classic (all eras) classical recordings from Decca, Philips, DG and smaller audiophile labels like Reference Recordings. Listen to the type of music you will be recording. This can be done at the library.

Hang out with others doing the type of work you'd like to learn.

Then, with a couple of years of experience, go find a mentor who will let you work with him/her. Don't work in a rock studio, only with classical engineers (perhaps with Tourette's syndrome!)

If you're really serious, I recommend McGill University recording program in Montreal,
or the program at Indiana University. Just transfer there and soak it up like a sponge.

p.s.--who wants to buy my Studer 962 console??

[tenor39]

I'll go with Ben and Teddy on this one, too. Know the music you're recording! I have a degree in Voice Performance and sang with many different ensembles + Opera for some years. This allowed me to really know what the music is supposed to sound like and the ability to read the scores is a huge plus. If you aren't a musician yourself, get to as many concerts as you can so your ear becomes familiar with the genre of music you want to work in. Plush is right about possibly transferring to a school that has a great music dept. as well as recording arts. Indiana would be at the top of my list for that.

Teddy, give me a shout when you get back home. Welcome back and thanks for your service to our country!

[fifthcircle]

The Cleveland Institute is another school with a good performance as well as good recording program. Esp. when it comes to working with classical music. A second for Indiana and McGill, too.

--Ben

[matyas]

I'm still in the early stages of my recording career, and am just at the point where I'm starting to make money from it (although I still have another job at this point, and I'm still at the level where I'm spending more on gear than I'm making back - hopefully that will change eventually!) Anyway, I have a BM (Oberlin) and an MM (University of Pittsburgh) in composition, studied a few different instruments (I've played everything from renaissance music to Indonesian gamelan to rock) and have been an avid listener and concert-goer my entire life. My degrees are obviously not in recording although I have taken courses in recording. I started messing around with recording when I was very young, got into it a bit more while in college, and then started getting serious about it a few years ago. In the meantime, I spent a few years teaching music theory at the college level and doing live and theater sound gigs. (At the moment, I've got a day job in the IT world.) These were great preparation for on-location work. Right now, I'm basically getting gigs through word-of-mouth, and hoping to cut back my hours at my "day" job (it often takes up evenings and weekends, time that could be spent recording) so I can start doing more recording work. I'm not doing exclusively classical at this point, although that is my real passion, and eventually I'd probably want to be in a situation where I could concentrate on classical recording. It also might be nice to get a gig with an established recording company, although this isn't something I've actively pursued.

[digitalolive]

Upon graduation from a small recording engineering school, I was trying to figure out how I was going to make a living at this. I had envisioned myself recording rock and jazz in a studio somewhere. The town I live in doesn't have alot of studio options so I had to think out of the box. I read in the paper that the local Jazz Festival was about to begin and contacted the director to see if I might help run mic cables or something to gain some experience. After showing up at 6am and working until almost 9pm with this very nice gentleman, he commented on how it was nice to have someone who actually knew how to coil a mic cable and asked if I would like to work the following week and actually get paid. That was ten years ago.

Through working with him I was introduced to other engineers, one of whom was the sound engineer for the ballet here in town, I worked for him for a period of time and got to know the house engineer at the theater where the ballet performed who subsequently hired me to run shows for him. This led to a side career in Theater Sound Design (which I still actively persue in the off season). Through this job I was hired by the local opera company for a couple of seasons.

During all this time I was still helping the first guy out whenever I could and learning everything I could from his vast 50+ years of experience. He was contracted by The Symphony Orchestra in town to record all of their Masterworks concerts for them. The Symphony would play concerts at the opera house and they once approached me to come work for them in the production department. Over the course of the last 6 years, I gradually worked my way up to Production Manager and record all of the chamber music concerts here in our small hall as well as work hand in hand with my mentor recording our large concerts in a 1700 seat multi-use venue. Little by little, he has been turning more and more of his business over to me as well as selling me pieces of gear as he outgrows them and moves on to better mics, etc. The experience I have gained through this process has been invaluable and as our orchestra is currently planning its new home in a 1600 seat acoustically designed concert hall, I look forward to the coming years furthering my education and honing my skills.

[cschreppel]

After graduating from a high profile recording program and getting my Bachelor's degree, I started working for another music school in the area as a recording engineer. We do a lot of large orchestral ensembles, chamber groups, choirs, etc., along with a good amount of jazz groups (both large and small).

I got the gig because of my classical background. Before college, I was a timpanist for about 8 years playing with local and regional honors orchestras and symphonic bands. My ability to read scores and speak the classical language got me the gig.

[joelpatterson]

Cold calls.

Just talked my way into the first gigs, out of the blue and with very, very minimal credibility... there were four or five chorus/orchestra ensembles in my local area and I dialed up the directors, one by one, like around 7 in the evening, late enough to be after dinner but soon enough that they'd still pick up the phone.

And just... rapped in my charmingest way about how I could record their concerts, named a ridiculously lowball figure and kept at it until they said okay.

This was the latter half of the 90's, and CDs of your local concert was still something of a novelty, so I hooked up with "legitimate" studios and got them to duplicate the CDs off of my DATs...

I really can't say enough about setting your mind on something and pursuing it.

Of all the battles you need to fight in establishing your presence on the scene as a recording engineer... the most difficult ones are the ones you need to fight with yourself. And your own doubts, trepidations and inertia.

The people you're working for are secretly ECSTATIC! that you've shown up when you did, you are God's gift from Heaven... not that they'll let it show!

[kwesloh]

I'll tell you what impresses me most when I meet young engineers wanting to 'break in" to any sort of gig; attitude. It's the person who asks what needs to be done before the senior engineers have a chance to tell them. It's the person who spends time listening to any and everything they can get their hands on. It's the newcomer that shows up early and stays late and offers suggestions in a way that actually makes a session go better.

Go figure out the difference between records made by ECM and DG and Telarc On your own.Listen first and then talk or read about it. I used to check CDs out of the library in big piles sorted by record label. I bought every Blue Note record I could afford. Then I would sit in my room in the dark and try to figure out what Rudy Van Gelder was doing (not to mention Wayne Shorter and Ron Carter etc.) It's amazing how much better you hear when you turn off your eyes.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
-Kyle

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Now, things are going pretty well, but it has taken several years of hard work to get here. I spend a lot on equipment, but I'm finally at the point where I can start to slow down with my capital purchases. I own what I need for 80% of the work I do and the rest is provided by area rental houses. If the client can't pay for the rental, they simply don't get it.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha... Man this post is only a year old and I thought that I'd be slowing down on the gear purchases. That sure hasn't happened. Got more good clients and the work has dictated rig. Not slowing down on the purchases anytime soon.

Gotta love old threads. Oh well... As you were...

--Ben

[Remoteness]

thumbsup

[Roland]

Originally Posted by tenor39

I'll go with Ben and Teddy on this one, too. Know the music you're recording!

Lol, somebody should have told me this years ago, I'm not a great sight reader, and I don't love modern classical music, however for some reason I often get involved with a lot new music projects and I am starting to suspect my clients see me as a specialist in this field . I don't know about other's here, but I have found that I don't often choose the work I do it chooses me. Like others I started in a small 8 track studio convinced I was going to record rock bands, I started recording classical music because I had always loved it, I was convinced that I could probably make a regular living at it, and I could afford enough kit to get started, at that time to open a studio with reasonable starting kit would have cost around £30,000 about £160,000 at todays money!

Regards


Roland

[3rd&4thT]

In 1950, classical records were 20% of all records sold.

Now it's less than 2%.

You've got to really want this more than anything else in the world. Otherwise, don't quit your day job.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by arpodthegreat

I am in school (liberal arts college, BARD in NY) and have been recording when i have the time at school and at home. i have mainly done rock/fold type recordings. i have interned at some studios and when i get out of school i plan on trying to become a recording engineer in LA (where i'm from). at school i have recorded quite a few classical student concerts. just stereo straight to CD. I really have begun to enjoy this and i was wondering how to get into this on a proffesional level once i leave school. i really want to pursue a career engineering contemporary pop/indie/rock music but i would like to also do classical jobs as well. any sugestions?
T.Ray i expect you will chime in and i look forward to your response.

The fact you came here means you know the quality of the people that post here and that's a great start. Not to state the obvious, but many of the engineers here are also very talented musicians. They bring musical knowledge, opinions and experience to the recording process. I found that in the freelance world, these are very valuable skills. The job of a producer is sometimes combined with the job of recording engineer. Many times I've had the score on the board while tracking the session and expected to listen for wrong/out of tune notes and rythms.
Any skills you bring with you make you more valuable. Keep recording and as Teddy brought up, compare your products with the that of the master engineers!

[Thom]

I started recording in graduate school. I did everything from multi-track rock concerts, jazz concerts mixed to 2 track. And, I still consider myself a newbie and will for my entire career. Never stop learning.

Anyway, I became obsessed with classical recording while in grad school studying double bass. We had ensemble rehearsals and group practice sessions. I always tried to record them. I did this to hear my mistakes, but later I realized that there was beautiful music coming from these performances. So, I started to tape my colleagues, when they rehearsed. My arsenal kept growing as did my gear. It started with SM57s and a Marantz cassette deck...ewww! But, you got to start somewhere. From there it ended up as a word of mouth, and friends would tell colleagues and then I was big in the college. I was the recording guy.

Fast forward, I am still learning. I network with other engineers. I give out business cards to all of the local engineers who do classical recording. I study scores (part of the composer/bassist in me). And, I always listen to the masters and then I go back and listen to my recordings to see what makes them different.

Finally, I have learned a great deal from this forum and my collections (recordings, gear, clients, etc.) grow. I told a colleague the other day that I would do this for free. You know it is love when that happens.

Hope this helps. Good luck to you.

[NorseHorse]

I was actually looking for info on rental houses today an ran across this.

Bump.

[Ozpeter]

I used to record local classical musicians with simple equipment. One day I received a phone call from a friend who worked for a major classical concert agency in London. "The boss will ring you in ten minutes and ask you to record a piano recital at the Festival Hall. Tell him you will, and tell him you'll charge him x pounds. Gotta go!"

I did as I was told despite being very nervous about it, and I think I can probably trace all subsequent recordings over about 40 years from the success of that one, as I've always operated by word of mouth.

Moral - when you see a chance, take it!

[BLP]

Originally Posted by Plush

To assist your ear in learning about balances do a ton of listening to classic (all eras) classical recordings from Decca, Philips, DG and smaller audiophile labels like Reference Recordings. Listen to the type of music you will be recording. This can be done at the library.

I couldn't agree more. I did a lot of classical recording before I really opened my ears and listened to the good, the bad (and occasionally the ugly) recordings that were already out there. This process takes your own little view of what a beautiful recording sounds like and turns it on it's head. Listening to decades of great recordings did more to make me a better engineer than any other single endeavour I've undertaken.

Originally Posted by Plush

If you're really serious, I recommend McGill University recording program in Montreal...

It's cold up here, but Wieslaw (Woszczyk) and Martha (de Francisco) are amazing resources in aesthetics, listening and productions techniques. thumbsup

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

...I always carry the conductors score with me to the gig so that I can stay a step ahead of the ensemble and keep abreast of any Dynamic or Tonal Changes. One thing that I am about to do(that I am very new at) is start mixing down to 2 track. This will force me to really know what I am doing...

Amen! Live-to-2 is where it's at! I believe that Plush once imparted a bit of amazing wisdom that went something like this: "Mix it like a man!"