The Figure-Eight Microphone Thread

[pkautzsch]

What figure-eight mics do you folks use? And: Why these?
Especially interested in SDCs.

[absrec]

AKG 414B-ULS

Neumann U87Ai

Pretty much because they are the only mics I have that will do figure of eight. I rarely buy mics based on what polar patterns they offer.

Today I'm using a pair of 414B-ULS on drum room mics. The mics are in figure of eight and placed in an X/Y configuration. It picks up in a 360 degree pattern. I kinda dig it. I think it's called Blumlien, but I couldn't tell you how to pronounce that.

-Aaron

[max cooper]

Bloom-line.



Here too on the B-ULS.

I try all the patterns when I'm micing things up so Fig-8 gets used a lot.

I like to use a pair of Fig-8 to mic a singer playing guitar. Use the null points to reject what you don't want.

[Oroz]

Yesterday I recorded an acordeon with a R-122 and aimed the null point towards its buttons so there were less bleed from them.

[The Spark]

I thought it was Blum-Line?

[Bob Olhsson]

Between the mid '30s and the early 50s by far the most commonly used recording and broadcast mikes for music were figure-8s. Using them was where everybody started from before the mid '60s.

Kind of funny how frequently tubes and tape get credited with what was really the sound of figure-8 mikes and leakage.

[The dman]

I like to use a pair of Fig-8 to mic a singer playing guitar. Use the null points to reject what you don't want.

Thanks for that, I have a singer songwriter coming in this week and I'll have to try that out.

[Doublehelix]

Originally Posted by The Spark

I thought it was Blum-Line?

I have to agree with Max, I say it "BLOOM-LINE" also... but what do I know? I'm American! We can't pronounce anything correctly!!!

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

I have to agree with Max, I say it "BLOOM-LINE" also... but what do I know? I'm American! We can't pronounce anything correctly!!!

We don't even have our own language.

[zarembo]

I did a live concert featuring two grand pianos very close to each other physically.

nestled inbetween was a percussionist with a snare and small cymbal.

I used an AT4050 in fig 8 directly facing the percussionist with the nulls oriented at both pianos and the rejection was almost TOTAL.

I love figure of eight!

[James Lehmann]

I don't generally like posting reported statements like this but I am doing so in the interests of seeking truth rather than peddling hearsay to 'prove' a point...

I read that some microphones don't exhibit identical patterns on both sides of the diaphragm when set to Fig-8 response. If this is true how would that impact on a M/S recording, and are some mics known to be more symmetrical than others in this regard?

Thanks for clarifying...

[Empty Planet]

Well, certainly many ribbon mics, at least the few I've used (and my current R14) give a slightly different sound on each side of the figure-8 loop. Don't know the whys and wherefores, however, and I don't know if the "lobe" of each loop is a slightly different pattern as well. Perhaps the more knowledgeable among us might enlighten the rest of us....

I do like using LDCs in figure-8 for vocals, though, if it's a track where the proximity is being taken advantage of. Often a very meaty sound, compared to other patterns in the same mic. Sometimes some kind of absorption treatment on the opposite side, sometimes not.

[Martin Kantola]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

What figure-eight mics do you folks use? And: Why these?
Especially interested in SDCs.

There are not many to choose from if you want a SDC, KM 56 is what I like a lot.

Martin

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Well, certainly many ribbon mics, at least the few I've used (and my current R14) give a slightly different sound on each side of the figure-8 loop. Don't know the whys and wherefores, however, and I don't know if the "lobe" of each loop is a slightly different pattern as well.

Some figure-8 mics really do have a slightly different sound from each side. However, in at least some cases, the difference is mostly in the character of the proximity effect between the two sides, so for sources that are a reasonable distance from the mic, the difference disappears. So while you may hear different sound when close miking with the two sides of the mic, in an M/S configuration they still work fine.

One other thing to keep in mind: Some people have made the mistake of deciding that the two sides of a figure-8 mic sound different by listening to their own voice while speaking alternately into the two sides while listening on headphones. That process will never give you a valid result. The problem is that you are hearing the combination of the mic/headphone signal plus the sound of your own voice directly. And since the two sides of the figure-8 are of opposite polarity, they combine very differently with the direct sound. So even if the figure-8 matches perfectly, it will sound very different when monitored in this fashion.

[Han]

Living next to germany I can assure you that Max is right, it is pronounced as bloom line, but with the bloom a little shorter.

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by absrec

...I think it's called Blumlien, but I couldn't tell you how to pronounce that.

Or how to spell it, I guess. It's Blumlein.

[T.RayBullard]

it is pronounced Bloomline(with a bit shorter OO) , but spelled Blumlein

I live in Germany.

and Neumann is pronounced NOYMAHN, not nooman

[EgyptionRing]

Would a ribbon mic (figure8) be a good idea for home recording? Or would there be to much ambient noise. The Beach boys used ribbons on there last album recorded in BW's living room. But I'm not sure if they were figure8.

[thenoodle]

Alfred E. NOYMAHN

[borau]

Alan Blumlein was an englishman.

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

Some figure-8 mics.....

Thanks very much, Gilliland. Very helpful information, clearly expressed.

And yes, I was a total sucker for the "testing" each side thing while wearing cans.

Well, not the first time I've been a complete hipster doofus. Now one small item has been taken from the vast sea of what I do not know and placed on the tiny heap of things that I do.

Polarity's different on each side. Imagine that.


Thank you.

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

And yes, I was a total sucker for the "testing" each side thing while wearing cans.

It's a pretty common mistake. How do you think I learned about it?

Originally Posted by EgyptionRing

Would a ribbon mic (figure8) be a good idea for home recording? Or would there be to much ambient noise. The Beach boys used ribbons on there last album recorded in BW's living room. But I'm not sure if they were figure8.

You can pretty safely assume that all ribbons are figure-8s (correction - see below). There are rare exceptions, but I'm not aware of any that are on the market at present. And figure-8s do require a good room since the room sound will be picked up by the back side of the mic. So they can be good for home recordings, but only if you have a good - and quiet - room.

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

What figure-eight mics do you folks use? And: Why these? Especially interested in SDCs.

Lately, I've been using an amazingly inexpensive pair of SDCs in figure-8 mode - Studio Projects B3s. I do a lot of live concert recordings, and I've been using these as room mics to capture the ambience in the room. Like any figure-8 mic, they have a very strong null at their 90 degree point, so I position them so that they angle across the room - one on the left side of the stage angled toward the right, the other on the right side of the stage angled left. I position them so that the house PA column is in their null, so I pick up very little of the direct PA, yet capture the room and audience sound perfectly.

The B3s are a good general purpose mic. Unlike many/most of the cheap Chinese mics, they really don't have a strong presence peak, so they're not at all shrill. They're not really "special" in any way - just a good workhorse microphone. And with multiple patterns available, they're a lot more versatile than, say, an SM57.

[Brian Middleton]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

You can pretty safely assume that all ribbons are figure-8s. There are rare exceptions, but I'm not aware of any that are on the market at present.

Beyer M160/M260/M500?

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Brian Middleton

Beyer M160/M260/M500?

Good point, the M500 is an obvious example. I forgot about those. I haven't used an M500 in years, but it's actually a very nice vocal mic for some singers. So I stand corrected - there are some ribbons on the market that are not figure-8.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by EgyptionRing

Would a ribbon mic (figure8) be a good idea for home recording? Or would there be to much ambient noise. ..

It would be less sensitive to ambient noise. A cardioid is a 50-50 combo of omni and figure-8.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

What figure-eight mics do you folks use? And: Why these? Especially interested in SDCs.

I very rarely use F-o-8 patterns. I would therefore consider it a waste of money to buy a dedicated (SDC) mic only for this purpose. My two 414s do the job nicley, when required. Not a pair though, so no chance to try Blumlein (shouldn't it be Blümlein/Bluemlein?).

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

Lately, I've been using an amazingly inexpensive pair of SDCs in figure-8 mode - Studio Projects B3s.

You meant LDCs here? I think the B3's are listed as having a 1" diaphragm.

Anyone know of any figure-8 SDCs?

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Anyone know of any figure-8 SDCs?

Sennheiser MKH 30. Neumann KM120. Schoeps something... AKG CK94 (electret, for the C391 semi-el-cheapo series). And some more that don't come to mind right now.

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Brackish

You meant LDCs here? I think the B3's are listed as having a 1" diaphragm. Anyone know of any figure-8 SDCs?

I guess you're right. I guess I tend to use them in the same way I'd normally use an SDC, but I should probably keep that in mind. For most of my purposes, the size of the diaphragm isn't really an issue.
Boy, two obvious errors in the same post - I'm on a roll!

[firby]

Originally Posted by borau

Alan Blumlein was an englishman.

BURN !