Help me spend 5k on a videocam/ audio recorder !

[Shaman]

Hi there,

I´m planning to make some studio tutorial DVDs and am planning my gear list:

I have 5 k to spend for a camera + an outboard audio recorder
I allready have a mac book pro with final studio express + two neumann KM 184 mics.

My plan was to buy a Sony HDR-7FX7E camera for picture
and a Sound devices 702T recorder for audio.

What do you think ?
My other thought was - is there a way to get an SPDIF audio signal from the new Neumann KM digital mic series into a Sony HD camcorder ? If yes - I wouldn´t need the sounddevices...?

2nd question:

How do I get the sound devices to start recording when the Sony starts / stops when the Sony stops ?

will I need to buy a rosendahl lanc interface for that or is there another way to sync an HD camcorder with the audio recorder ?

thanks a lot !

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Shaman

Hi there,

I´m planning to make some studio tutorial DVDs and am planning my gear list:

I have 5 k to spend for a camera + an outboard audio recorder
I allready have a mac book pro with final studio express + two neumann KM 184 mics.

My plan was to buy a Sony HDR-7FX7E camera for picture
and a Sound devices 702T recorder for audio.

What do you think ?
My other thought was - is there a way to get an SPDIF audio signal from the new Neumann KM digital mic series into a Sony HD camcorder ? If yes - I wouldn´t need the sounddevices...?

2nd question:

How do I get the sound devices to start recording when the Sony starts / stops when the Sony stops ?

will I need to buy a rosendahl lanc interface for that or is there another way to sync an HD camcorder with the audio recorder ?

thanks a lot !

With the greatest of respect, what makes you think people are going to buy studio tutorial DVD's from you if you don't know how to sync a DV camera and how best to record the sound for a film? I suggest that you need to think carefully about your business model before you start, there is some stiff competition out there from various people not least those like Charles Dye who has a proven track record.

If you still at the end of this decide you want to go ahead, You need to consider things such as lighting, tripods (jolting shots may look cool on tv, but are very distracting when you are trying to show people something) maybe even filters, I doubt your 5,000 Euro budget is half enough.

Regards


Roland

[Shaman]

Well Roland, not that I asked for your opinion on me and my business model.

I´m an expert in music production - so everything to do with film, film sound etc. is new territorium to me.

Knowing how to produce great music doesn´t mean knowing how to repair motorbikes....?!?

This is why I´m asking for advice.

However I believe that my plan can be done with a 5 k budget, since I won´t do a Spielberg movie but a simple Pro Tools ( a bit in the way like Ross Garfield´s Nasville recording workshop...) tutorial for some of my clients in reasonable quality. I know there are 20 k solutions with wireless timecode generators / receivers etc. but I need the stuff to be done within my budget.


Since this site is called "gearslutz.com" and not "writewithoutthinking.com" I just would need some serious gear related input from someone who is more experienced in this field than me.


So anyone ?

[pkautzsch]

Have you thought about renting a "better" camera (that is, soundwise). Lots of cams out there with P48 XLR mic inputs - thus no need for an external recorder. You're not recording the music directly, are you - it's rather about what the PT operators are explaining, isn't it. A shotgun mic would be nice, Sennheiser MKH416 or MKH60. You can rent that too. Lots of film rental facilities in Munich, aren't there.
What you also need is a boom op who knows what he's doing. Or you'll give each person a lavalier.
As to lighting: you'll need some Dedolight spots, I think, and probably one or two larger lamps like 1.2kW or more (it's great doing indie lo-budget movie shots where one doesn't only do sound!). Some theory about film editing can't hurt either - I would have recommended www.filmerforum.de, but due to some f***ing hackers that site still is down. www.moviecollege.de isn't bad either.

If you really record on a separate device, and your cam can't output timecode, you'll need the good old clapper-board.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Shaman

Well Roland, not that I asked for your opinion on me and my business model.

I´m an expert in music production - so everything to do with film, film sound etc. is new territorium to me.

Knowing how to produce great music doesn´t mean knowing how to repair motorbikes....?!?

This is why I´m asking for advice.

However I believe that my plan can be done with a 5 k budget, since I won´t do a Spielberg movie but a simple Pro Tools ( a bit in the way like Ross Garfield´s Nasville recording workshop...) tutorial for some of my clients in reasonable quality. I know there are 20 k solutions with wireless timecode generators / receivers etc. but I need the stuff to be done within my budget.


Since this site is called "gearslutz.com" and not "writewithoutthinking.com" I just would need some serious gear related input from someone who is more experienced in this field than me.


So anyone ?

If you want to sync sound on the cheap a clapperboard does it fine (you can also clap your hands together in front of the lens) , you could also record timecode to both your recording devices, you could even get a professional camera with timecode on it.

Regards


Roland

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

Have you thought about renting a "better" camera (that is, soundwise). Lots of cams out there with P48 XLR mic inputs - thus no need for an external recorder..

Thanks v. much pkautsch , your advice is appreciated !

Yes - getting audio in the camcorder would be preferable !
Only my recent tests with prosumer camcorder pres were very disappointing - so I thought for the seperate audio recorder route...and, well...those new neumann km digitals, which don´t need pre nor converter came to my mind - wouldn´t they be v. cool for live sound...?

Yesterday I tried a Canon XM-2 semiprofessional camcorder with a battery powered sennheiser shotgun & a XLR adapter.
The picture was perfect for my purpose but the audio signal was noisy and very unfocussed - I guess it´s the cheap built in mic pre...??

At the moment I´m taking a look at the new Canon XH A1 HDV camcorder since it has XLR inputs with phantom power. Don´t have a clue if the pres sound that much better...? What do you think ?

Will have to try it.

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

You're not recording the music directly, are you - it's rather about what the PT operators are explaining, isn't it. A shotgun mic would be nice, Sennheiser MKH416 or MKH60. You can rent that too. Lots of film rental facilities in Munich, aren't there.
...

Exactly it´s just me explaining PT. Do you think the cardioid KM 184 grab too much room ambience?

I´m going to do quite a lot of tutorials so I need my own setup.
Which hd camera in the 5 k area would you recommend SOUNDWISE ?

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

If you really record on a separate device, and your cam can't output timecode, you'll need the good old clapper-board.

Since we´ll have a lot of takes I want to avoid this...
My workaround thought was: Since all sony & Canon camcorders have that Lanc output I could use the rosendahl lanc converter to synchronize the souddevices...did someone try that ?

Originally Posted by Roland

If you want to sync sound on the cheap a clapperboard does it fine (you can also clap your hands together in front of the lens) , you could also record timecode to both your recording devices, you could even get a professional camera with timecode on it.

Wellcome on topic !

Until now I didn´t find a timecode camcorder @ 5 k.
Any more intelligent thoughts on the subject ?

[David Spearritt]

http://www.rosendahl-studiotechnik.de/bonsai.html

[Shaman]

Ah - the bonsai - know it..........................how could it help me ?

HD video via........???.........to bonsai ?
mics to external mic pres to external converter with adat output to bonsai ?

too heavy & complicated

[pkautzsch]

I think (although I don't want to vouch for it) that most cameras with phantom powered XLR inputs have "sort-of clean" preamps. Or: why not use your studio's gear (some preamp you already have), via line out into the cam to bypass the cam's pres? Worst case: you get a small mixer like the Sound Devices 302 (waaaayyy better than SQN - and it's their cheapest mixer!) and connect that one to the cam.

KM-D Neumanns put out AES-42 (?) which is not AES/EBU, but allows to transfer power via the cable (just like P48 in the analogue world) - thus a special interface is needed. It is called DMI and allows to set the mic's gain and filters and all kinds of stuff via computer. I think it comes with the mic, but I'm not really sure about that, since KMD hasn't been a choice for me so far. Neumann's website should have manuals for that, so you can RTFM ;)

For sound-for-picture Shotgun or super-cardioid (Schoeps *41 capsules are often used) is better than cardioid in any case. You want a dry sound but can't get close to the source.

[Shaman]

pkautsch - thanks very much man -

will try that