Orchestral reverb

[klaukholm]

I am looking for a classy reverb for orchestral recording. Not so happy about our Aphro reverb, and the TC 6000 is not always available.

What reverbs are you guys using, and if you had to pick one which one would it be?

[alexaudio]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I am looking for a classy reverb for orchestral recording. Not so happy about our Aphro reverb, and the TC 6000 is not always available.

What reverbs are you guys using, and if you had to pick one which one would it be?

Convolution reverb.... be it Altiverb, Sequoia's convolution or something else. If I am unable to use those, I will turn to TC Electronic. Hardly using Lexicon anymore, though I have enjoyed the 300 quite a bit in its day.

[0VU]

I have several reverbs from which to choose and I use them for different things.

For classical music, or where I want a reverb to blend into a mix rather than stick out as an "effect", I prefer to use Lexicons for helping blend spot mics into a mix or to augment a natural acoustic but some kind of convolution reverb (usually a Sony DRE-S777) or a TC S6000/4000 if I need an overall reverb for an entire mix or to replace/create an acoustic where the real one is severely lacking or totally unusable. If it's a really tough balancing act like a poor quality performance in a duff acoustic I could use both a Lex 300 and DRE together.

In more complex multimic/multitrack "crossover" stuff I might also use Roland R880, Quantec QRS/Yardstick and Sony DPS series (which can sound good but I find need very sparing use as they can become obvious quite quickly) quite often in various combinations with the Lex 300 and/or DRE.

Most of my mixes are direct to stereo so adding reverb tends to happen live and I like to get reverb timbre/balance as I mix. I don't like adding reverb to finished stereo mixes as I find it harder to make it blend convincingly after the fact. If the mix is well balanced in itself then with a good convolution reverb it's not such a problem but if there are spot mics to be blended in I find it much better to use something to help sit them into the perspective when I mix, then perhaps use another overall reverb when that mix is sounding ok, rather than try to make spot mics blend in just using an overall mix reverb. Though it depends upon the complexity of the mix and how hard it's been to get a balance that the client likes.

I use the TC 6000/4000 reverbs and they're superb but I still prefer Lexicons (300/480/960) for their musicality and flexibility. I find it easier to make them sit convincingly in a mix - quite possibly because I'm more used to them and how they sit with the music rather than because they're inherently "better" than anything else. They are not, however, natural sounding in comparison to some other hardware reverbs or convolution systems - when the reverb sits back in the mix or is adding to a natural reverb they work really well but if it's very exposed they tend to give themselves away. If I really want natural then I use a convolution reverbas this is capable of out-naturalling any Lexicon/TC/Quantec/Eventide/other hardware that I've ever heard. This however, is at the expense of some speed of use and controlability.

I find that the better TC reverbs generally do sound cleaner and more natural than Lexicons and sometimes that's just what's needed. The TCs imo give more control, more quickly, than any convolution reverb I've tried and come close in terms of the naturalness of their sound. I think they represent a good compromise between control and accuracy for people looking to simulate a natural acoustic whilst retaining the kind of control needed in a complex mix.

If I had to use only one reverb for everything, it'd probably be a Lexicon 300; it's the one I've had longest, the one I know best and I know that I can use it in a mix or sitting more prominently to augment an existing room. However, it's not often that I'm looking to replace or create an acoustic from nothing - more often it's blending spot mics and helping balance an ensemble that's too big for the room or a room that's poorly chosen for the performance. If I could also have a DRE-S777 for overall room sound and post-production sweetening I'd be covered for pretty much any of the acoustic music I do.

I'd prefer not to add artificial reverb but all too often it's needed - even if only to satisfy a client's idea of how they think things sound.

[T.RayBullard]

I am using Altiverb and SIR. both work wonderfully. I limit myself to 4 verb types and make one of them work...it is easy to get bogged down in all the choices..




the best Hardware box for classical(many would say) is the dres 777 from Sony.

If I had to pick one, it would be the Sony. (Thanks Plush for getting that one in my head and giving me more ideas to spend money on..)

Sir-- http://www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html

http://noisevault.com/nv/index.php?o...tory&Itemid=29
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fokkie/IR.htm

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[xist]

Which are your 4 IRs choices for Altiverb?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by xist

Which are your 4 IRs choices for Altiverb?

I sort of borrowed the idea from another engineer(limiting myself to 4), and those are ---short dark, short bright, long dark, long bright, and blank.

One of them will work if I open my damn ears.

[Berolzheimer]

I've been very happy with a combo of a Lex PCM-90 & Altiverb lately.

[stampen]

Hej Kjetil

I know that the guys doing all the recordings of the GSO uses the SONY DRE-S777 for both BIS and DG.

/A

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by 0VU

I'd prefer not to add artificial reverb but all too often it's needed - even if only to satisfy a client's idea of how they think things sound.

I am with you on that one.
Unfortunately we find ourselves in less than stellar acoustic environments from time to time.

Has anyone here been running the powercore?

I guess it's time to get my hands on a sony to see how I like it.

[aracu]

If you get a chance to try Waves Ir1, for PC, it sounds realistic and clean, without messing up the original audio quality, unlike most digital reverbs. Try it with the convolution large hall and church settings.

[Legacy]

Hi Kjetil,

I own a TC6000 and the Sony 777 and have played with Altiverb and Waves IR-1L.

For supremely natural sounding spaces the Sony wins hands down to my ears. The TC is better at making lush reverb but can have a slightly metallic / unnatural quality IMO - still very impressive. Altiverb was nice but the Sony is extraordinary.

I particularly like the European CD-Rom. The American one has some nice things as well (Mechanics, St John Divine come to mind). You can find them used for a decent deal as they are not supported.

Be advised that they DO NOT support 2fs stereo input. It is mono in stereo out where they take the center speaker position as the generating point for the impulse. It is still quite nice but a little less complex perhaps. I'm thinking about running my send to it in analog. Its converters are decent. But generally frustrating that it is so limited.

Hope all is well,
Silas

[Jim vanBergen]

480L. Tried and True!

The TC6000 is good

300L is great...

PCM90...PCM80... come close, certainly work well for me daily, but:

I'm really most fond of the Lex 480L.

[fifthcircle]

I think reverbs are the one thing you can't have too much of...

My main verbs are my Lexicon 300, the new Variverb in Sequoia 9 and the Sequoia Room sim. Other situations do well with the Waves IR1, or the Powercore verbs (I have classicverb and megaverb- I didn't bother with the VSS3).

Each have their own strengths and weaknesses and my choice depends on the ensemble, room, and music. I will also use a combination of reverbs to create a specific sound.

--Ben

[Plush]

As the other fellows have said, for orchestra you have a lot of choices.

We have narrowed them down to:
TC 2000
TC4000
Sony DRE S-777
Altiverb

All are good, all are useable.

Sony, in my opinion, however, RULES.

If you have a good room, set up ambience mics and crank the gain on them. Don't be afraid to go to 50dB-55dB on them. Then blend in the ambience mics (sometimes facing away from the group) into the main pick-ups.
This would be the best type of reverb for *that* program because it's the same room you're working in.

[klaukholm]

We generally put two or three 4003's out in the room, and that is usually all we need.
My understanding is that the sony is discontinued, but that spares are available thus far. How likely is one of these units to fail beyond repair?

Can you tell me more about the m4000?
We have only used the m2000 and system 6000.
How does it compare to the 6000 for stereo reverb?

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Can you tell me more about the m4000?
We have only used the m2000 and system 6000.
How does it compare to the 6000 for stereo reverb?

http://www.tcelectronic.com/Reverb4000

[Remoteness]

For me, the Sony DRE-S777 always comes to mind.

[JohnRodd]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I am looking for a classy reverb for orchestral recording. Not so happy about our Aphro reverb, and the TC 6000 is not always available.

What reverbs are you guys using, and if you had to pick one which one would it be?

I've had great luck with TC 4000, the TC 6000 and Altiverb.... EMT 140's..... and the live chambers at Capitol Studios in Hollywood.

[JohnRodd]

ps.... sorry - I couldn't pick just one.

[classicalrecord]

although i haven't had a chance to play with many of the top end units, when i did hear the lex 480L it was pretty spectacular-- however, on the opposite end of the price spectrum "SIR" convolution software is free and is really good-- all you need are some good impulse responses and you're set-- a ton are available for free on the web if you search around. i've managed to get some nice sounds for classical stuff out of this setup without spending a penny. -- even less than my just contributed 2cents.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I am looking for a classy reverb for orchestral recording. Not so happy about our Aphro reverb, and the TC 6000 is not always available.

What reverbs are you guys using, and if you had to pick one which one would it be?

Well, the poster does not seem to mention budget, so I would go with the 960L and nothing else.

I've tried most things over the years and quite honestly, when it comes to blending in spot mics with the rest of the orchestra (which is what I suppose you are doing and is mentioned at length by 0VU) the 960L is a doddle to use. Select the room, adjust for size if nec. and then use the joystick for position and you are right there!

I used to use all kinds of different devices and techniques, ranging from room mics to chambers to plates and boxes, but since we got the 960L I have become very lazy. Every time I use it, it just sounds so right!

[Robobo1]

Sony DRE-S777 hands down for orchestral work.

M4000/System 6000 sound wonderful, too, but but the 777 blows them away in sounding natural and real.

Lex 480/960? Not so much. Though there are a few engineers here who prefer the 480 to the System 6000.

R

[minister]

for this i HIGHLY the Quantec Yardstick. so lush and real and ealitic ad the best reverb tail i have heard in a church, chapel, or cathedral reverbs.

new versions were relaesed end of last year. now does 24/96 and there are surround versions.

[Curtis Franklin]

altiverb or some other convolution is great.

when you find a nice room.... sample it. then you can build your own set of impulses.

[JohnRodd]

p.s... the Bricasti M7 is very, very nice as well......

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

For me, the Sony DRE-S777 always comes to mind.

And, I'm still feeling it today.

[Larry Elliott]

Is the Sony 777 still available?

Best
Larry Elliott

[klaukholm]

Unfortunately the 777 is not available any longer.

[mpdonahue]

I'm actually pretty agnostic when it comes to reverb.
I've always been a fan Lexicon's reverbs, specificly the 480 and 300. The PCM91 is a very good reverb as well, but I could never get the 960L to work the way I wanted it to.
I never really liked the TC M5000, but the Reverb6000 we have here is a workhorse. I find that I have to tweak the TC reverbs a little more than the Lexicon's to make them do what I want. I find the tail of the Lexicon's to be a little more natural. The TC's tail is a little too dense and has more what I call the "Gee Whiz" factor. Great when you demo it, but tougher to make work in every day use.
We have 3 of the new Bricasti M7's. These should really be given a listen. It is what I think is the most versatile reverb for classical production out there. It is the easiest to make blend and sound natural.
I played around with both the Sony and Yamaha convolution reverbs and found them to be difficult to use without being obviously audible. I could never get the tail of the reverb to match and blend with the actual reverb of the hall. It is great for putting environment around a source that has none, but when there is already a strong character to the recording, the convolution reverbs are tough to make disappear.

As always, YMMV.
All the best,
Mark

[audiomichael]

The Bricasti M7 flipped me out when I heard it. I was coming from a TC4000, and the M7 really blew it away (to my ears) in dimension and realism.