micing acoustic jazz quartet live

[cebolao]

i have to do some live job with acoustic jazz quartet. drums, double base,
piano and trumpet.

trumpet is no problem, he's got his own special mic, double base has
pickup and a small amp (i would take the line from amp and maybe put an
additional mic close to instrument - a condenser?)

for drums i think only a stereo pair of condensers - as overheads, or
ambience from front?

piano - another pair of condencers close to the strings?

this is how i would make it in the studio. however, i have never worked
with acoustic quartet live. can i use so many condensers on stage? i will
not play LOUD of course, but i'm afraid of feedbacks

[SLS]

Will you be running the house sound too? A lot of the issues will be determined by the size of the space, whether you need to have monitors, etc. Also, what mics do you have to play with?

Without having more info about specifics, I would probably set it up like this...

Trumpet: If his mic is good, then use it. You may want to check it out first if you haven't already
Double Bass: Take the DI and use a condenser
Drums: 2 Overhead condensers and a mic for the Kick
Piano: 2 condensers in the lid close to the strings

Keep in mind that depending on the space, everything might not need to go through the PA. And for the bass, you could put the DI through the PA and not the condenser, unless you will just be using his amp.

[cebolao]

[cebolao]

okay, my recent post was just a test - i couldn't post anything for some reason until now... never mind...

back to the story:

i will not make the sound for recording - it's only the pa.

the space will be different - sometimes big, sometimes small. it's going to be many concerts in different places.

i will not have any mics with me - will write down everything i need in the rider.

i need monitors.

[SLS]

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand your post. I think others might have better opinions about PA stuff.

Good Luck!
Adam

[fifthcircle]

A few things to keep in mind... Much of what you do is dependent on the group and the venue. I've worked with some groups that want near- rock concert levels on stage. Others want almost nothing.

Basic set, though that should fit you for most halls (you can always turn stuff off).

Mics- I'd suggest bringing your own if at all possible. This is where you are likely to have problems in venues that are not your own. It takes up precious little space/weight and will save your butt. Anyways- 2 on the piano, 1 on the bass (plus a direct), 1 on the trumpet, and 1 on the drums (unless monitor needs dictate otherwise). All condensers are fine, but I'd use a few dynamics in there (Leave the ribbons at home in case you are working from a board with a global phantom switch): Trumpet will sound great with something like a Sennheiser 441. If you don't have a good condenser for the bass, Sennheiser 421s sound great as to EV RE20s. I'd use condensers on the piano and a single Large Diaphragm condenser sitting in front of the kit about 2-3 feet in front just below cymbals "looking" at the snare.

You'll probably find in most halls, you'll leave the drum and trumpet mics off.

Monitors: Ask your musicians what they want. Most will probably want one. This also may effect your mic setup. If your drummer wants a butt-rumbler (sub right behind them), you're going to need a kick drum mic. Most don't, however. I usually place one monitor to the right of the pianist, 1 behind the bass (next to his amp), one to the left of the drummer's back, and 1 in front of the front soloist.

You'll need a board with 6 auxes. 4 for monitors and 2 available for effects (you may want a bit of verb in your mix in some houses).

Most Important- EQ!!! 30 band EQ for every channel of house and every monitor. Bring a RTA or EQ by ear using Pink noise and music that you are familliar with. I usually bring a CD of music that I know very well with me and play it until it sounds the way it should. I also start with a quick feedback test to find the hot areas and I knock those out.... (Ring out the system) It is amazing how close you can get without using a lot of fancy gear- a recording you know and your ears get you a long way.

When mixing shows like this, I try to make the PA blend into the acoustic sound coming off the stage. With that in mind, nothing is terribly loud- just a clear sound. When that is the case, you also don't need to worry about feedback too much as there just isn't the volume to cause it. Do the obvious things with mic positioning to make sure speakers aren't hitting them directly...

Good luck...

--Ben

[cebolao]

Originally posted by fifthcircle
A few things to keep in mind... Much of what you do is dependent on the group and the venue. I've worked with some groups that want near- rock concert levels on stage. Others want almost nothing.

these guys are rather "almost nothing" than "near-rock levels", fortunatelly

Originally posted by fifthcircle
Trumpet will sound great with something like a Sennheiser 441. If you don't have a good condenser for the bass, Sennheiser 421s sound great as to EV RE20s. I'd use condensers on the piano and a single Large Diaphragm condenser sitting in front of the kit about 2-3 feet in front just below cymbals "looking" at the snare.

the trumpet player has his own mini mic (brjoel&kjaar, i think) which i like a lot. it's condencer, but it's attached to the trumpet so ususally no bleeding is caused.

interesting idea with the mono mic on drums - have to check it out...

Originally posted by fifthcircle

Most Important- EQ!!! 30 band EQ for every channel of house and every monitor. Bring a RTA or EQ by ear using Pink noise and music that you are familliar with. I usually bring a CD of music that I know very well with me and play it until it sounds the way it should. I also start with a quick feedback test to find the hot areas and I knock those out.... (Ring out the system) It is amazing how close you can get without using a lot of fancy gear- a recording you know and your ears get you a long way.
Good luck...

--Ben

thanx a lot, the eq is IMPORTANT. i have to put everything into the rider, because sometimes i get very surprised with the (lack of) equipment i find in some places...