Violin live recording with PA?

[amundsen]

Hello,

For a concert with a solo piece for violin and live electronics, I need a good microphone to avoir feedback but at the same time giving the most natural sound possible.

I have tried an AKG contact microphone sticked on the bridge but the results are poor.

So which microphone would you recommand? Should I avoid a contact microphones to get a natural sound? Or should I place my microphone elsewhere?

Thank you for helping.

[amundsen]

Hello,

For a concert with a solo piece for violin and live electronics, I need a good microphone giving the most natural possible sound and at the same time able to reduce the risk of feedback with the loudspeakers.

I have tried an AKG contact microphone sticked on the bridge but the results are poor.

What's wrong? The type of microphone (contact vs aerial)? The model of microphone (AKG C411 PP "Micromic", would a Schlertler or a C-Ducer be better?) ? The position on the bridge?

Thank you for helping.

Amundsen

[d_fu]

Will the violin be amplified as well? Guess so...
I'd start with a good hypercardioid condenser mic to reduce feedback potential. What have you got at your disposal?

Daniel

[ghellquist]

A really good choice is DPA4060 or 4061 + the special mic holder for violins. You will need an XLR adapter as well to get into a phantom power mixer/pre. If it is a one-time job, do check a rental house, the mic is often used in film/stage work but you may need to buy the holder (a few pounds) separately (suggestion www.thomann.de).

Check out the mic an accessories under
www.dpamicrophones.com

The mounted DPA would allow the performer to move around (trailing a cable). If you want to go wireless, the rental house can suggest solutions there as well.

Another alternative may be just about any good studio condensor mic on a good stand. I would probably use a small diameter cardioid (as I already have those). Make the player stand still close to the stand. Use one of the "clown-nose" filters to keep rosin from the bow entering the mic.

Gunnar

[tenor39]

Try the DPA IMK4061 kit. It has an elastomer mic mount that sits on the strings below the bridge. It also has a removable sticky base if you want to place the mic elswhere. I've used that combo several times for just what you're doing with excellent results.

[Remoteness]

I second the DPA IMK4061 kit.

[amundsen]

Great, everyone seems to agree about this DPA microphone. By the way its price is really reasonable.

Amundsen

[Jim vanBergen]

Also a fan of 4061 or 4060 (no pad). I provide them to the violinist with the shock mount as well as with a velcro sleeve that can hold the mic on the bottom of the bridge, and several classical violinists (including my sister-in-law, a well-known violin soloist in Europe) prefer this mounting option as it leaves the body of the violin completely untouched while yielding an excellent sound.

[fifthcircle]

Another fan of the 4061. The only instrument mount mic I've ever used where I haven't even had to touch the EQ. Very natural sounding and their string instrument mount is one of the coolest mounts out there.

--Ben

[jazzbutcher]

Howdy,

Good to hear all this info about the DPA 4061 for violin, as I am often in a situation where there is a fiddle in some band with a PA that is too loud and it is always tough to get a good fiddle sound.

Is there a favorite Pre-amp that folks like to use with a DPA 4061? I heard one used at a friend's studio with a fiddle and I thought it sounded a little shrill and scratchy when mounted with the little rubber kit doo-dah from DPA. I don't know what pre-amp he used on that session, but I would like to hear people's experience with this mic and your pre of choice.

many thanks,

-dave

[resound]

I just used a Schertler Stat-V pickup for a viola concerto that featured electronics. The sound is decent and much more isolated than you'll get with a free field mic. Plus you don't have to worry about the soloist moving off axis or accidentally hitting the mic. I wouldn't want to record with it but if an instrument is going to be processed and/or amplified it does the job pretty well.

Schertler also makes the Dyn-V which is a contact mic. Isolation is about as optimum as you'll get. I was turned off by its sound initially. However, with some liberal and strategic equalization you can get a tremendous sound from it. I opted not to use this one, however, since as nice as the sound was you lost subtleties of bowing with the contact transducer (sul pont, sul tasto, etc.).

For what it's worth, I spoke with someone who had a piece done at IRCAM with Ensemble Intercontemporain. He used pretty generic "countryman" mics on all the instruments. He was fairly happy with the result but bleed was a serious issue.

[amundsen]

Thanks for the information. I will check these Schertler and Countryman microphones.
However bleeding is really an issue.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by jazzbutcher

Good to hear all this info about the DPA 4061 for violin, as I am often in a situation where there is a fiddle in some band with a PA that is too loud and it is always tough to get a good fiddle sound.

Is there a favorite Pre-amp that folks like to use with a DPA 4061? I heard one used at a friend's studio with a fiddle and I thought it sounded a little shrill and scratchy when mounted with the little rubber kit doo-dah from DPA. I don't know what pre-amp he used on that session, but I would like to hear people's experience with this mic and your pre of choice.

I've just used the pres that are in whatever console I'm using at FOH. These mics will sound a bit scratchier than some other mics, but they are by far the most natural of all the various clip-on mics out there (including the Audio Technica, Countryman and other offerings). The one thing that will make these sound considerably brighter is using the grid that provides a high-frequency boost. Make sure you've got the flat grid on while playing and you'll have a pretty natural sound.

--Ben

[resound]

Originally Posted by amundsen

Thanks for the information. I will check these Schertler and Countryman microphones.
However bleeding is really an issue.

Think of the Schertler for sound reinforcement only. I think if I had it to do again, I would use one of the Schertlers to feed the computer processing only and use another mic to amplify the instrument (viola is always at a disadvantage) getting a more natural sound. Of course, the same issues of the instrumentalist striking the mic if it's a clip on or moving off-axis in free-field still apply.

You might also consider what the part is like and the player's style. If you're doing a lot of off the string bowings like jete or something else that might result in a lot of right arm motion I would be more hesitant about the clip-on mics.

[Storyville]

How bout violinists who play in louder venues/ rock bands, etc. Anyone have any luck with the DPA 4099?

[Storyville]

bump...

[matthewd]

There is a newer DPA - the 4099 violin which is more directional than the 4060 / 61 omnis

Matt