Fujara (huge flute) - recording setup

[mamasiga]

Hello,
I want an advice on what mic setup should I use to record a FUJARA. I am planning to invest in new mics + interface max. $1100. Please, help me with some good advice what mics should I buy.

FUJARA is rather unusual flute, that is over 5 FEET LONG (170 cm) !!!
To know what I am speaking, you can just have a look at
http://www.fujara.sk
In between - I am the one who runs this site.

Also the fujara sound is rather unusual when compared to "normal" flute. Fujara is capable of making very rich sounding multiphonics, its voice is smooth and somewhat haunting. Since it is an overtone flute, its lowest notes are rather gentle and weak in sound presure when compared to the highest notes which sound strong.
For this reason, I would like to emphasise the bottom frequencies a bit, but still have the richness of multiphonics a good fujara can produce.

My experiences with recording the fujara:
I record now with one small diaphragm conderser cardioid mic. Since the Fujara is huge, there are two possible location where I am used to place the mic.
1/ On the top of the flute - where the sound device (fipple) is located. Sound here is very bright, best possition at capturing the multiphonics fujara can produce.
2/ On the bottom of the flute - where the 3 fingering holes are located. the holes are aimed from the bottom end of the flute. This possision is the best at recording especially the low and mid range notes and melodic playing. Multiphonics from this possition sound really strange and flat.

Here are some audio samples (really bad sound quality) taken with my old small capsule cardioid mics:
1/ taken from the top of the flute (too bright sound, too harsh and windy, but relatively good multiphonics. Recording lacks on very nice bass frequencies that fujara normally has)
http://www.fujara.sk/audio/instrumen..._fujaraa_g.mp3

2/ Taken from the bottom of the flute aimed at 3 fingering holes (sound is much smoother and a bit bassier but the multiphonics at the beginning of the sample sound really strange. I think my current mic is not as good at recording bass frequencies at all...
http://www.fujara.sk/audio/instrumen...tempered_g.mp3

First I planned to buy one large diaphragm tube mic such as old SE 5500 to record the multiphonics and overall fujara sound + shure 57 or 58 beta to empasise the nice bass frequencies.
But now I am not quite sure if this is the right choise for me. My budget to spend on Mics is $500.

PLEASE HELP,
TOmas

[max cooper]

Wow. That thing sounds cool.

I'd start experimenting with one ribbon mic and one small diameter condenser.

[mamasiga]

Yeah, first I have thought to use the ribbon one too. But I have read the ribbons are the best for loud instruments and the fujara sound, especially on lowest notes is very gentle...

[pkautzsch]

If you can afford a pair of good middle-class SDC omnis and a nice (large-ish) room for recording, I'd go for that. Put them up about 1.5 to 2 mtrs away...
If that's not possible, why not try a two-mic setup with a top mic for multiphonics and a bottom mic for those low notes. Take care with phase issues, though.

[mamasiga]

Hi, I would prefer not to pick up much of the room if possible. It is just a normal room, nothing special as to acoustics. The room is rather small, two walls with wood facing so it does reflect the sound too much. It is not a studio, its just my home where I live...

So, I think the omnis won't be the best for me. perhaps SDC cardioid would be better (to pick up as much of instrument and as little of room as possible).
I was considering purchasing a pair of Oktava MK012, Rode NT5 or MXL 603s (MXL 604s). Still, I would like to emphasise somehow the bass frequencies by putting one mic close to the bottom of the flute.

What LDC tube vintage mic for appr. $400-500 would be good to pick up various acoustic instruments (with low acoustic pressure) as various flutes or clarinet ? For exaple the fujara voice is in the same range as human voice. Vould be thus a vocal mic OK too ?

Please, if you know something that could help, add your two cents too...

Tomas

[matucha]

Well I also need perfect my fujara recordings, I bought one a long time ago near Liptovsky Mikulas from an old man who built them and had a lot of interesting stuff. The music that you have on your site reminds me alot what I get when I record it... it sounds a bit hollow. But I've always pointed mic(s) to the upper end and not to the body. It could be interesting micing top and bottom. Dunno what happends in the middle where you place your fingers, I've never tried to listen to it that way

Well... I'll try to experiment with my mics and will send the samples... but I can't play it well, just some basic stuff

[matucha]

Ok, so I tried gefell UM57 on my fujara (don't know how good the instrument really is though). Other things in the chain are manley dual mono mic pre and lavry blue AD. My room si not finished (there are some bare walls) so it has some room tail attached ...and the computer is running loud (should do a box for it).

I found any other mic position than on the very top - facing the hole pretty unuseful. There is almost no sound radiating from the body IMO.

One take is with um57 set to cardiod and other is omni. Both taken from around 10cm. The difference is stunning. Don't know why, but omni is sounding quite right and cardiod is hollow. What I'd suggest is to track it with two mics in stereo setup (maybe MS) placed quite near. If I go further I get toooo much room, good for something but not for solo...

enjoy

[mamasiga]

Yes, the omni sound is getting closer. However, it is still too noisy and scratchy to my ears. In my opinion it is also neccessary to record it aiming the bottom end as well.

When I was recording audio samples for ROLAND, they were using two SDC - one on top, one on the bottom. And the sound to my ears was more complete. But I do not know now exactly what mics they were using...

So what mics would you recommend ? a stereo pair ?
SDC or LDC,
condenser, tube, or dynamic?
Ribbon ? - might be good but I am a bit afraid that its sensitivity is too low for lowest fujara register - what do you think (I have never use them so I actually do not know) ? Can you recomend me a good $200 ribbon mic ?

For SDC I was considering to buy a pair of the following mics:
Oktava MK012 (omni, cardioid, hypercardioid)
Rode NT5 (cardioid)
SP C4 (omni, cardioid)

Shure SM57 - dynamic

For LDC I was considering one (or two) of theese:
Oktava MK219 or MK319
ADK Vienna
Behringer B1 or B2 pro
Red5 Audio RV8 or RV10
MXL 990 (is very cheap now - $70)

What mic's (combination) would be the best ?
Which SDC or LDC mic is the best for recording of acoustic instruments ? I do not want too emphasise high end too much. What mic from these would you use to record instruments such as oboe or clarinet ?

Thanks Tomas

[FilmDingo]

I am in love with the sound of that Fujara! What a find.

I play Irish Tin Whistles and a few things I picked up in India - time to expand the collection eh!

I was wondering if the new Rode NT55 might be worth looking at.

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT55

They have an omni and a cardiod pickup included, and they should be a reasonable price in your neck of the woods (the Australinan dollar vs the Euro, you should win!)

Do you have a local hall or church you can record in?

PS - I have heard some decent recordings from the SP's - but the Rode is probably going to be much lower noise wich you would hear trying to capture those low notes

[matucha]

Well this omni sample sounds actually much fatter than the real thing in my room... By noisy you mean that ugly noise from computer or that ssssss, shhhhh stuff that fujara makes?

Out of what you've listed as your mic candidates, I'd go for pair of octava mk012 with cardiod and omni heads and one figure-8 (for m/s). If you won't get 90% of the sound you are after with these there is something wrong with acoustics, mic position or whatever other than mics. If you are after the rest of the % you "need" shoeps or dpa or gefell ... but also something much better than your ordinary room in the flat. In a small room there is still going to be a lot of phase cancelation from early reflections of nearby walls if you don't wan't make room too dead. It could be better with some diffusors, but...


good luck

[charles maynes]

If you are in a big city, try renting some mics as opposed to buying them- You will likely end up with a better sound.

As to mic techniques, the space is going to play a bg part of the sound- I knew a guy who did didgeridoo's and he preferred actually playing in the corner of large space to take advantage of both the natural level boost as well as the compounding of the low frequencies his instrument produced. It is unlikely you will need to do really tight micing, since you may end up with a lot of unwanted qualities from the performer- i.e. exaggerated breathing and such. for your mics I would start with something like some some Schoeps or Neumann pencil mics (CMC series or KM84's) and experiment with getting a nice stereo presentation. You may wish to add some spot mics for added detail, but you would be well served to record them to discreet tracks if possible. Also be mindful of capsule overload, since acoustic instruments can and do generate sounds that may not be audible, but could distort either the mic capsules or your mic preamps.
A PZM could be set on the floor to capture some of the low end too.

good luck-

charles maynes

[Crowley]

I use ribbon mics to record shakuhachi (traditional Japanese end blown flute) which is not a very loud instrument. The low noise floor is essential to that "instrument of Zen" since silence is one of the notes!

See

http://microphonium.blogspot.com/200...prov-with.html

Marco Granados uses two ribbon mics to record his flute playing and I believe he also uses a DPA 4004.

Bob Crowley


http://microphonium.blogspot.com