Korg MR-1000 / 1bit-5.8MHz DSD portable recorder - Page 6

Sinewave · 31st January 2007, 01:05 AM

Hey gus thank you for your reply, but i have to ask you where can i find info about recording sessions involving the use of DSD on the net ? i visit the Super audio center web site from time to time to read about recording sessions you guys have posted there but i have not seen anything new lately, and i have scoured the net to death reading what i find, but nobody seems to have updated there sites. I know that DSD recording sessions are going on because i see new SACD's every month on Highfidelityreview.com, but i find no info about those recordings.
I think it would really help DSD and the Sonoma system if people read more about the recording sessions to clear up any miconceptions about the DSD recording process. Oh by the way Gus welcome to the forum.

crna59 · 31st January 2007, 01:31 AM

I'm convincing people/bands every day to record in DSD. It's not any more money up front for them to do it. I just use my Pyramix system instead of my PT HD system. It's just another app. The extra money comes in the back when they want to replicate to Hybrid SACD. I'm sure that price will come down eventually.

Regards,
Bruce

Sinewave · 31st January 2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crna59

I'm convincing people/bands every day to record in DSD. It's not any more money up front for them to do it. I just use my Pyramix system instead of my PT HD system. It's just another app. The extra money comes in the back when they want to replicate to Hybrid SACD. I'm sure that price will come down eventually.

Regards,
Bruce

Hey that's cool, and how do they feel about DSD after the recording is done.

crna59 · 31st January 2007, 05:42 PM

They love it! I've coverted many people. One alot of material it's pretty subtle, but for acoustic instruments in a great room, it's definitely noticeable.

Regards,
Bruce

DSD_GUS · 31st January 2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinewave

Hey gus thank you for your reply, but i have to ask you where can i find info about recording sessions involving the use of DSD on the net ? i visit the Super audio center web site from time to time to read about recording sessions you guys have posted there but i have not seen anything new lately, and i have scoured the net to death reading what i find, but nobody seems to have updated there sites. I know that DSD recording sessions are going on because i see new SACD's every month on Highfidelityreview.com, but i find no info about those recordings.
I think it would really help DSD and the Sonoma system if people read more about the recording sessions to clear up any miconceptions about the DSD recording process. Oh by the way Gus welcome to the forum.

Hello Sinewave, thank you for the welcome,

Have you checked out SA-CD.net? They sometimes have information about new projects.

We get involved in new DSD recordings from scratch just about every month. Usually these are multitrack projects - many of them are projects for Telarc. I think Telarc is recording most of their projects to the Sonoma multitrack these days. They're a good source for true DSD recordings.

I don't always get around to posting info, but i have been collecting a lot of session photos... so when things slow down, I will put more session information on the site. We just started a new 32 track Sonoma DSD project with a band called Kan'Nal. I posted something about that today.

http://www.superaudiocenter.com/Kannal%20Recording.htm

I will take your comments to heart and try to put up more information in a more timely manner.

Last night we mixed down Kan'Nal to the Sonoma and transfered the DSD mix file to the MR1. IMHO, its playback sounded amazing! It's like having a 1/2" two track in your shirt pocket! (I hope Steve Jobs gets one of these!) I have to say that i was far more impressed than i thought i would be. I look forward to getting the MR-1000 in March.

gus...

www.superaudiocenter.com

DSD_GUS · 31st January 2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crna59

They love it! I've coverted many people. One alot of material it's pretty subtle, but for acoustic instruments in a great room, it's definitely noticeable.

Regards,
Bruce

It is much less subtle when you are multitracking to DSD...

Sinewave · 31st January 2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

We get involved in new DSD recordings from scratch just about every month. Usually these are multitrack projects - many of them are projects for Telarc. I think Telarc is recording most of their projects to the Sonoma multitrack these days. They're a good source for true DSD recordings.

Hello gus thank you for your reply, another question : while looking through the Sonoma manual, i saw nothing like a virtual mixer that i am usually accustom to when using a PCM based app, does that mean to mix a multitrack DSD project you need to go outside of the Sonoma and use an analog board for mixing ?. Thankyou for your time.

DSD_GUS · 31st January 2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinewave

Hello gus thank you for your reply, another question : while looking through the Sonoma manual, i saw nothing like a virtual mixer that i am usually accustom to when using a PCM based app, does that mean to mix a multitrack DSD project you need to go outside of the Sonoma and use an analog board for mixing ?. Thankyou for your time.

Yes... There's no mixer in the multitrack recorder. We use it as an analog multitrack replacement that can edit. We are always using it in the analog environment. There's level control in the EDL and the mixing of two things on each track for layering, but the downmixing to stereo or surround is done on analog desks. I think this gets the best sonic quality.

The older 8 track Sony systems that we sometimes rent out have a DSD Wide mixer developed by Oxford when Oxford was part of Sony. It is the same technology that is in the Sadie DSD-8 and all the processing is done at the DSD sample rate.

Sinewave · 2nd February 2007, 06:40 PM

Hey gus Thanks for the reply, but another question have you guys started using the
UCMF file based cutting master as yet , or is it still in the works ?.

DSD_GUS · 2nd February 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinewave

Hey gus Thanks for the reply, but another question have you guys started using the
UCMF file based cutting master as yet , or is it still in the works ?.

Yes. I use it all the time for generating files for our archives. I believe that DADC still needs to cut from an AIT for system reasons. I believe they will accept a UCMF but they might charge to make an AIT from it.

gus...

audiothings · 7th February 2007, 02:33 PM

Two questions:

* Is there a possibility that a future firmware update will allow m/s decoding for the headphone output? This is something that nagra-d and sound devices stuff have on board and will be a significant consideration for me... BTW, is there any m/s encoder in the market that sits between a pair of headphones and a headphone output?

* How much gain do the pres offer? Enough for an SF12 recording a plucked guitar from a distance of 4'?

respect,

PMoshay · 8th February 2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiothings

Two questions:

* Is there a possibility that a future firmware update will allow m/s encoding for the headphone output? This is something that nagra-d and sound devices stuff have on board and will be a significant consideration for me... BTW, is there any m/s encoder in the market that sits between a pair of headphones and a headphone output?

* How much gain do the pres offer? Enough for an SF12 recording a plucked guitar from a distance of 4'?

respect,

Yes there will be firmware upgrades, they are already working on the next one.
Not sure about the M/S thing, that seems like a specialised thing since the unit does not offer M/S recording at its price point, Nagra may offer this feature, just get your credit card ready.
The mic pre's seem to offer plenty of gain, without actually testing it with that mic i can not say for sure, but its worked with my Royer 122 stereo mic just fine. I think you'll be just fine with it.

Units should arrive anyday now.

audiothings · 9th February 2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

but its worked with my Royer 122 stereo mic just fine.

not to nitpick, but the r122 is a phantom powered mono ribbon mic which requires significantly less gain than the sf12.

respect,

PMoshay · 9th February 2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiothings

not to nitpick, but the r122 is a phantom powered mono ribbon mic which requires significantly less gain than the sf12.

respect,

my Royer is a SF12 stereo mic, no phantom needed. I switched up the model# by mistake.
Even the lower output mics should be fine. Ive used the Royer SF12, B&K 4011, AT825, Shure VP88, U87, AKG C414TLII, no issues with level. Im not sure how loud the guitarist from 4' will be, but i bet it would be ok if they play at normal volumes.

prismtheory · 9th February 2007, 12:16 PM

One of the engineers at my studio is a korg rep and we just got both of the mr series.

I have been using the mr-1000 to print mixes too. So far I really like it better than the masterlink I had been using before. The usb makes it easier and faster than the cd24 burning of the masterlink for sure.

anyone else using it for this application?

DSD_GUS · 9th February 2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prismtheory

One of the engineers at my studio is a korg rep and we just got both of the mr series.

I have been using the mr-1000 to print mixes too. So far I really like it better than the masterlink I had been using before. The usb makes it easier and faster than the cd24 burning of the masterlink for sure.

anyone else using it for this application?

Have you tried mixing to DSD?

prismtheory · 10th February 2007, 02:36 PM

Not yet. I still don't quite understand the concept...but the main reason is that I'm running mac osx 10.3.7...and the converter software runs on 10.3.9 and above. So I didn't feel like dicking with converting it.

I wonder if in the near future dsd will be an acceptable format to pass along to mastering engineers.

Didn't someone post a link to the white papers on this technology?

DSD_GUS · 10th February 2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prismtheory

Not yet. I still don't quite understand the concept...but the main reason is that I'm running mac osx 10.3.7...and the converter software runs on 10.3.9 and above. So I didn't feel like dicking with converting it.

I wonder if in the near future dsd will be an acceptable format to pass along to mastering engineers.

Didn't someone post a link to the white papers on this technology?

That makes sense... Most of the major mastering houses do take DSD and they master using either a Sadie, Sonoma or Pyramix to play the 2.8mHz mix files. If the 1000 sounds really good, then it could also be a good machine to master from and the mastering houses could accept the 5.6mHz masters. This is like submitting analog tape, and the mastering house would go through their analog mastering chain to end up with the CD (or SACD) master.

It is an excellent way to go if you are mixing through an analog desk, and even more excellent if your multitrack was analog or DSD, but if you are mixing digitally, then a DSD stereo master makes no sense at all.

I was just really curious as to how the 1000 sounds. I have one on order but they won't ship until the end of the month.

Korgs own description is very good:
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_...&category_id=3

And there's a DSD white paper on our site:
http://www.superaudiocenter.com/EducationalLinks.htm

gus...

jcarley2 · 11th February 2007, 11:21 PM

I've been reading the manual for the MR1000 and I can't figure out if the unit will only take TRS line in and XLR mic in and phantom power only through XLR (of course). I was hoping that the MR1000 would do line in as XLR, but the manual isn't so clear on this. Can anyone clarify?

zenmastering · 12th February 2007, 01:38 PM

Hi Gus,

DADC Terre Haute - AIT only*

DADC Austria - UCMF or AIT

DADC Japan - UCMF or AIT

*Well, it was that way until I just found out that Sony DADC in Terre Haute is now sending all SACD projects to Austria for manufacturing...

Good to see you here...Hope that you're well!

Graemme

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSD_GUS

Yes. I use it all the time for generating files for our archives. I believe that DADC still needs to cut from an AIT for system reasons. I believe they will accept a UCMF but they might charge to make an AIT from it.

gus...

Synthi · 16th February 2007, 12:54 AM

My MR-1000 arrived from japan on monday. I´m very busy working so I did just a few tests.
I like it. I`m using Mytek/apogee coverters for comparison and the MR1000 sounded very good. I copied some masters to the MR1K HD (original pcm files, not converted to DSD) and recorded some material in DSD (original masters played from the apogee) using the line input: All clean, nice sound.Still need to try the mic preamps and record analog mixes direct to DSD...
I got it mainly for some sound location work I need to do, but if my first impression keep the same I`ll be using it a lot as a master recorder.

jcarley2: the line in is TRS only, XLR for mic input only. Different gain and input impedances. I`m using XLR-TRS adapters, no problem.

Best Regards,

Synthi

Bluzzi · 4th March 2007, 08:50 AM

I just got a demo unit today and only have it until monday to try it out. So far it sounds fantastic to me. I wanted something for mixdown only. I am using an analog board for mixdown and this unit is ideal. I do hear a slight difference in the output compared to the console but I am not even sure it was recording in 1 bit as I just turned it on without setting anything. I'll try and read the manual tomorrow.

The unit is tiny and very light so it feels a bit like a toy but don't let that fool you.

I've wanted to get the Masterlink (never tried one myself) but heard bad things about its converters and so I've been hesitating. Now the MR-1000 looks like a winner.

Its early to tell if this unit will become a popular mixdown recorder. I'd love to hear more comments from others.

jim

Bluzzi · 7th March 2007, 03:57 AM

Bluzzi · 12th March 2007, 02:53 AM

Well got it again to try this weekend and loved it!

I transfered the file to my laptop and converted to 16 bit and burned CD with it. This is exactly what I wanted. Now if they could add a mini keyboard and a mini screen for minimal editing of the file as well as the conversion to AIFF or WAVE then that would be an amazing mixdown machine.

The TASCAM seems to be great but its pricier. I'll be getting an MR-1000 very soon.

For those of us that like to mix to an external recorder this little jewel covers it.

Call your Korg dealer and get a demo for a few days. (use 1/4 jacks for line in not XLR!)

jim

Baithak · 12th March 2007, 06:52 AM

Hi Folks,

Thought I should share this positive experience with the new Korg at a recent location gig. Unfortunately the room was not ideal and I could not use my best mics and had to go for a close dynamic miced setup. Here are some early impressions.

The Sound: Is simply to die for. I used it as a backup to my trusty 722 recording at 88/24 but I am certainly going to use the Korg's recording as the master. It sounds that much continuous? if that can be a description. There is a fullness that I am having difficulty explaining but is very easy to feel.

There may be very,very slightly enhanced treble but I cannot be sure. Over the next week I am going to try a parallel setup using the Cranesong's spider as the front end and converters to the 744 but I already have a feeling that the Korg(in DSD) is going to sound better than the converters on the Spider (PCM).

I have not tried the internal preamps but will try them with ribbons/condensors over the next week.

Use: It is fairly easy to use. The menus are straight forward. I have not needed to read the user manual. And light weight. My colleagues felt it looked a bit on the flimsy side but the aluminum body seems fairly robust. It does not feel anywhere as sturdy as the SD machines but it is certainly adequate.

Wish list:
* Would have liked a PCM spdif output to send to a CD writer without going through analog and another conversion.
* Since it does not have a built-in dvd drive, it would have been nice to the have the USB port be able to directly write to an external drive. As it stands you have to go via a PC.
*Wish the XLR inputs were switchable to line. As it stands you have to go 1/4 inch to use the line inputs.

Overall: I feel this will replace my 722 immediately as the location master recorder and is highly recommended for such use.

Baithak

audiothings · 12th March 2007, 09:12 AM

hello baithak

very happy to know about your positive experience with the device... if the preamps hold up to those on the 722 (at least for condenser mics) i think we have a winner!

please update us with further experiences...

respect,

Sinewave · 12th March 2007, 02:19 PM

Hey man you seem to be having fun, Tell me what do you think about the audiogate software ? when you mixedown did you use DSD ? and what did you think of the conversion from DSD to Red book CD ? is the quality ok ?.

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31st January 2007, 01:05 AM	#151
Sinewave Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 332	To Gus Hey gus thank you for your reply, but i have to ask you where can i find info about recording sessions involving the use of DSD on the net ? i visit the Super audio center web site from time to time to read about recording sessions you guys have posted there but i have not seen anything new lately, and i have scoured the net to death reading what i find, but nobody seems to have updated there sites. I know that DSD recording sessions are going on because i see new SACD's every month on Highfidelityreview.com, but i find no info about those recordings. I think it would really help DSD and the Sonoma system if people read more about the recording sessions to clear up any miconceptions about the DSD recording process. Oh by the way Gus welcome to the forum. __________________ Sinewave.

31st January 2007, 01:31 AM	#152
crna59 Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Issaquah, WA Posts: 480	I'm convincing people/bands every day to record in DSD. It's not any more money up front for them to do it. I just use my Pyramix system instead of my PT HD system. It's just another app. The extra money comes in the back when they want to replicate to Hybrid SACD. I'm sure that price will come down eventually. Regards, Bruce __________________ Bruce A. Brown Puget Sound Studios Mastering & Post Production

31st January 2007, 05:42 PM	#154
crna59 Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Issaquah, WA Posts: 480	They love it! I've coverted many people. One alot of material it's pretty subtle, but for acoustic instruments in a great room, it's definitely noticeable. Regards, Bruce __________________ Bruce A. Brown Puget Sound Studios Mastering & Post Production

2nd February 2007, 06:40 PM	#159
Sinewave Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 332	To Gus Hey gus Thanks for the reply, but another question have you guys started using the UCMF file based cutting master as yet , or is it still in the works ?. __________________ Sinewave.

7th February 2007, 02:33 PM	#161
audiothings Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 619	Two questions: * Is there a possibility that a future firmware update will allow m/s decoding for the headphone output? This is something that nagra-d and sound devices stuff have on board and will be a significant consideration for me... BTW, is there any m/s encoder in the market that sits between a pair of headphones and a headphone output? * How much gain do the pres offer? Enough for an SF12 recording a plucked guitar from a distance of 4'? respect, __________________ "Ultimately, I want to reach more people. That's what I've intended all my life even though it may not seem that way." - Randy Newman Last edited by audiothings; 13th February 2007 at 11:19 AM.. Reason: clarity

9th February 2007, 12:16 PM	#165
prismtheory Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 229	One of the engineers at my studio is a korg rep and we just got both of the mr series. I have been using the mr-1000 to print mixes too. So far I really like it better than the masterlink I had been using before. The usb makes it easier and faster than the cd24 burning of the masterlink for sure. anyone else using it for this application?

10th February 2007, 02:36 PM	#167
prismtheory Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 229	Not yet. I still don't quite understand the concept...but the main reason is that I'm running mac osx 10.3.7...and the converter software runs on 10.3.9 and above. So I didn't feel like dicking with converting it. I wonder if in the near future dsd will be an acceptable format to pass along to mastering engineers. Didn't someone post a link to the white papers on this technology?

11th February 2007, 11:21 PM	#169
jcarley2 Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2	I've been reading the manual for the MR1000 and I can't figure out if the unit will only take TRS line in and XLR mic in and phantom power only through XLR (of course). I was hoping that the MR1000 would do line in as XLR, but the manual isn't so clear on this. Can anyone clarify?

16th February 2007, 12:54 AM	#171
Synthi Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 68	My MR-1000 arrived from japan on monday. I´m very busy working so I did just a few tests. I like it. I`m using Mytek/apogee coverters for comparison and the MR1000 sounded very good. I copied some masters to the MR1K HD (original pcm files, not converted to DSD) and recorded some material in DSD (original masters played from the apogee) using the line input: All clean, nice sound.Still need to try the mic preamps and record analog mixes direct to DSD... I got it mainly for some sound location work I need to do, but if my first impression keep the same I`ll be using it a lot as a master recorder. jcarley2: the line in is TRS only, XLR for mic input only. Different gain and input impedances. I`m using XLR-TRS adapters, no problem. Best Regards, Synthi __________________ Custom Sound Lab, Spain Mixing & Mastering http://www.customsoundlab.com

4th March 2007, 08:50 AM	#172
Bluzzi Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 360	I just got a demo unit today and only have it until monday to try it out. So far it sounds fantastic to me. I wanted something for mixdown only. I am using an analog board for mixdown and this unit is ideal. I do hear a slight difference in the output compared to the console but I am not even sure it was recording in 1 bit as I just turned it on without setting anything. I'll try and read the manual tomorrow. The unit is tiny and very light so it feels a bit like a toy but don't let that fool you. I've wanted to get the Masterlink (never tried one myself) but heard bad things about its converters and so I've been hesitating. Now the MR-1000 looks like a winner. Its early to tell if this unit will become a popular mixdown recorder. I'd love to hear more comments from others. jim

7th March 2007, 03:57 AM	#173
Bluzzi Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 360	bump

12th March 2007, 02:53 AM	#174
Bluzzi Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 360	Well got it again to try this weekend and loved it! I transfered the file to my laptop and converted to 16 bit and burned CD with it. This is exactly what I wanted. Now if they could add a mini keyboard and a mini screen for minimal editing of the file as well as the conversion to AIFF or WAVE then that would be an amazing mixdown machine. The TASCAM seems to be great but its pricier. I'll be getting an MR-1000 very soon. For those of us that like to mix to an external recorder this little jewel covers it. Call your Korg dealer and get a demo for a few days. (use 1/4 jacks for line in not XLR!) jim

12th March 2007, 06:52 AM	#175
Baithak Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pune, India Posts: 126	KORG MR-1000. Some quick thoughts Hi Folks, Thought I should share this positive experience with the new Korg at a recent location gig. Unfortunately the room was not ideal and I could not use my best mics and had to go for a close dynamic miced setup. Here are some early impressions. The Sound: Is simply to die for. I used it as a backup to my trusty 722 recording at 88/24 but I am certainly going to use the Korg's recording as the master. It sounds that much continuous? if that can be a description. There is a fullness that I am having difficulty explaining but is very easy to feel. There may be very,very slightly enhanced treble but I cannot be sure. Over the next week I am going to try a parallel setup using the Cranesong's spider as the front end and converters to the 744 but I already have a feeling that the Korg(in DSD) is going to sound better than the converters on the Spider (PCM). I have not tried the internal preamps but will try them with ribbons/condensors over the next week. Use: It is fairly easy to use. The menus are straight forward. I have not needed to read the user manual. And light weight. My colleagues felt it looked a bit on the flimsy side but the aluminum body seems fairly robust. It does not feel anywhere as sturdy as the SD machines but it is certainly adequate. Wish list: * Would have liked a PCM spdif output to send to a CD writer without going through analog and another conversion. * Since it does not have a built-in dvd drive, it would have been nice to the have the USB port be able to directly write to an external drive. As it stands you have to go via a PC. *Wish the XLR inputs were switchable to line. As it stands you have to go 1/4 inch to use the line inputs. Overall: I feel this will replace my 722 immediately as the location master recorder and is highly recommended for such use. Baithak

12th March 2007, 09:12 AM	#176
audiothings Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 619	hello baithak very happy to know about your positive experience with the device... if the preamps hold up to those on the 722 (at least for condenser mics) i think we have a winner! please update us with further experiences... respect, __________________ "Ultimately, I want to reach more people. That's what I've intended all my life even though it may not seem that way." - Randy Newman

12th March 2007, 02:19 PM	#177
Sinewave Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 332	To Bluzzi Hey man you seem to be having fun, Tell me what do you think about the audiogate software ? when you mixedown did you use DSD ? and what did you think of the conversion from DSD to Red book CD ? is the quality ok ?. __________________ Sinewave.