Korg MR-1000 / 1bit-5.8MHz DSD portable recorder

[springer]

Please forgive my humor if anyone is offended but -

KORG MR1000 for mp3's is like buying a Ferrari and putting square wheels on it.

I know I know - but I just couldn't resist...

[lucey]

Oh you're right, totally funny ... why wont my DSD play mp3s!?!

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

This reminds me of a product looking for a customer.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

Lynn you should mix to the thing once and report .... it has better depth than any PCM you have, I'd bet. After the mod, even better linearity.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by lucey

Oh you're right, totally funny ... why wont my DSD play mp3s!?!

Well the release notes for the updated drivers just says (plays mp3 files). It doesn't say only plays certain types of mp3 files. I was just pointing that out.

Given that the converters on the MR-1000 blows all of my other gear out of the water, how can I NOT use it as an mp3 player. I wish I could use it as an external sound card. And as an mp3 player is about the only way that I can do that. Not to imply that I'm using just mp3 files. When space isn't an issue and with a 40GB drive it's not much of an issue. I just copy the wav files as extracted from the CD straight to the device. It works well that way. Baring the non mp3 player menu behavior. i.e. Playlist via individual selections, not via filesystem path.

As far as a ferrari with square wheels. How could (or why would) you buy something with several hundred horse power and NOT put a tow hitch on the back.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

Well the release notes for the updated drivers just says (plays mp3 files). It doesn't say only plays certain types of mp3 files. I was just pointing that out.

hey there's no fault in maxing it out, that's human nature. it's just telling that a main point of all the 'negatives' so far is this application, far afield from it's primary aims!

[geoff004]

I wouldn't be surprised if my answer lies somewhere in these 500+ posts, but does anyone know if the Korg software will convert a 5.8 DSD wav file down to a 2.whatever DSD wav file? -not just to a PCM format or mp3?

thanks

[lucey]

Originally Posted by geoff004

I wouldn't be surprised if my answer lies somewhere in these 500+ posts, but does anyone know if the Korg software will convert a 5.8 DSD wav file down to a 2.whatever DSD wav file? -not just to a PCM format or mp3?

thanks

Yes it will, it will also cross convert in to other DSD formats at the 2 rates.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by lucey

Yes it will, it will also cross convert in to other DSD formats at the 2 rates.

Is the AudioGate software the only one that can convert 5.6 to PCM?
Are there others out there? All I can find are ones that do 2.8 to PCM.

Thanks,
Bruce

[lucey]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Is the AudioGate software the only one that can convert 5.6 to PCM?
Are there others out there? All I can find are ones that do 2.8 to PCM.

Don't know Bruce ... I have Saracon Light, and it's non DSD. Does Saracon not?

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by lucey

Don't know Bruce ... I have Saracon Light, and it's non DSD. Does Saracon not?

Saracon DSD only goes one way.. PCM -> DSD .. and it's 2.8

Regards,
Bruce

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Saracon DSD only goes one way.. PCM -> DSD .. and it's 2.8

Saracon DSD does both PCM --> DSD (@ 64fs/5.6MHz) and DSD (@ 64fs/5.6MHz) --> PCM

128fs/5.6MHz is not yet supported.

[bcgood]

How has this thing not won more awards than the electronic musicians 2008 editors choice? The recordings on this unit sound the closest to analog that I've ever heard...

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by beyarecords

Saracon DSD does both PCM --> DSD (@ 64fs/5.6MHz) and DSD (@ 64fs/5.6MHz) --> PCM
128fs/5.6MHz is not yet supported.

I thought 64fs was 2.8224MHz?

I'm looking for something that will convert 128fs/5.6 to PCM besides AudioGate....

Regards,
Bruce

[Bryan T]

I have some monitoring questions about the MR-1000. Is there a way to monitor in mono? Perhaps a software setting that would let me test mono compatibility to make sure my mic placement is OK?

I also plan to experiment with M/S recording. I realize there isn't a M/S matrix in the MR-1000 and would do that processing in post. However, I would like to get a sense of what the mix might sound like while recording - to make sure the mics are well placed. Is there a cheap way to do this, perhaps from the headphone output?

Thanks,
Bryan

[lucey]

There are hardware boxes out there, sorry I can't think of a name right now.

[macula]

Bryan,

Though I do have the machine, I haven't noticed a "mono monitoring" option and I doubt there is one. But I would advise you to take a look at the user's manual, downloadable from korg.com.

Originally Posted by Bryan T

I also plan to experiment with M/S recording. I realize there isn't a M/S matrix in the MR-1000 and would do that processing in post. However, I would like to get a sense of what the mix might sound like while recording - to make sure the mics are well placed. Is there a cheap way to do this, perhaps from the headphone output?

Ah, if you find a solution to this, please let me know. It's my one big gripe at the moment. To my knowledge, the only solution is to use an outboard mic preamp with MS decoding built in -- for example, the Grace Media m201. But this would cost you around $2,000. I have not been able to find a headphone preamp with an MS matrix, and outboard decoders have simply vanished from the market. I have also heard that most of these solutions (except for the preamp) tended to color and/or distort the signal, which may explain their demise.

[Shadow_7]

Not that it provides the MS matrix, but you could just pipe the output to headphone preamp with a mono button. My HP4 has that much. Although I don't know of one that runs on battery power. And I'm not sure if the Korg outputs to the XLR/TRS or RCA outs while recording. But you could just take the headphone out to RCA, then to TS, to headphone preamp, hit the mono button, and back to headphones.
As I invision trying to explain this to a plumber in a bar after a couple of beers.

I suppose you could also just use a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter for the headphone out, then plug in a mono adapter, and then plug in the headphones. Not that that provides the MS matrix either. But it should get you in the ballpark for the mic positioning.

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

I suppose you could also just use a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter for the headphone out, then plug in a mono adapter, and then plug in the headphones. Not that that provides the MS matrix either. But it should get you in the ballpark for the mic positioning.

That seems like the cheapest way to do it. Thanks for pointing that out. It should work well for normal stereo techniques. I'll have to play around with the M/S placement so that I know what I'm trying to avoid when positioning the mics.

I had a bad experience tracking a stereo pair where I didn't check mono compatibility well enough before recording. The day was pretty much wasted, so I'm trying to avoid that.

Thanks again,
Bryan

[macula]

Of course, for MS monitoring, there is also the (expensive) possibility of using a mixer with phase inverters. I do not know, however, to what extent sound quality would be compromised by such a solution.

[tsvisser]

I just have a few questions about this unit before I pull the trigger on having one sent to me...

Headphone output level knob.... does it also adjust the line level monitor output levels too? The manual was somewhat vague on this point.

Monitor outputs are active all the time, only when recording, only when playing back, or is it somehow selectable where you can mute the monitor in certain instances?

The built in pres... if I needed to use them in a pinch, what would you compare them to? Lesser than a ULN2 or Grace Lunatec, equal to Mini-Me, etc...? (mostly asking this question from an absolute signal to noise / noise floor at higher gains perspective than tonal sound quality)

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

Headphone output level knob.... does it also adjust the line level monitor output levels too? The manual was somewhat vague on this point.

The RCA outs are not affected by the headphone level knob. They're not affected by the gain level knobs either during playback. I haven't used the XLR outs yet, but I'd assume they're the same.

Originally Posted by tsvisser

Monitor outputs are active all the time, only when recording, only when playing back, or is it somehow selectable where you can mute the monitor in certain instances?

I don't really know, but I think the only output while recording is to the headphone jack. But that might be selectable in the menus. AFAIK, monitor outs are only active during playback. But as I suggested, it might be selectable. And it might vary depending on if you're on battery power or power tether. I record on battery only, most of the time. I should probably read the manual eventually.

Originally Posted by tsvisser

The built in pres... if I needed to use them in a pinch, what would you compare them to? Lesser than a ULN2 or Grace Lunatec, equal to Mini-Me, etc...? (mostly asking this question from an absolute signal to noise / noise floor at higher gains perspective than tonal sound quality)

I don't really have much to compare them to. I have a DMP3 and Delta 44, and the Korg smokes either. And sounds better with the onboard pres than when using the DMP3. As long as you keep the peeks in the -12 to -6 range it sounds great. In the -3 to CLiP range it imparts a little color. -18 and down, when you amp it up to audible levels in post, there's a noticeable noise floor. Not really an audio techie. I just really like this unit.

My main gripe is that it can't playback any file format that it's not capable of creating. Like 16 bit and >= 96 kHz, or non-stereo tracks. But since it doesn't create them, it shouldn't be a problem for most folks.

[lucey]

The XLR outs are active during recording, and are not adjustable with the headphone volume. The pres are okay/good, like a Burr Brown Sytek for example (nicer IC based). I'd suggest the input side mod for a more perfect capture the opens the top and flattens the low mid bump as stock.

[RickZ]

To add to previous reply . .

I use RCA outs to a backup cassette recorder during recording, with headphone control fully CCW, it would appear the headphone control is for headphone output only.

I have previously used Grace Lunatec > RME Multiface at 96/24, and find MR-1000 using built in pre's as good or slightly better(cleaner). With newer high output mics, such as TLM103/MKH8040, input level about 10 o'clock gets a nice level on pipe organ and choral music, imho. This is with Gain switch in L position.

BTW I record DSD 5.8, then convert to 96/32bit with AudioGate program, then edit 96/32, SRC with r8brainPro to 44/16. Maybe someday there'll be a way to edit and burn DSD. I'll hang onto those files, since external hard disks are not too expensive.

Hope this helps,
Rick Z

[stagefright]

I see that someone has posted a Korg MR-1000 for sale on ebay starting at $1. I'm thinking of bidding. Has anyone actually used one of these? If I wanted to print mixes to it, then use the analog outs on the back to master with analog eq and compression onto vinyl or convert down at the end of the chain with high quality converters (like the ua 2192), how does this compare to say, printing to half inch?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by stagefright

I see that someone has posted a Korg MR-1000 for sale on ebay starting at $1. I'm thinking of bidding. Has anyone actually used one of these? If I wanted to print mixes to it, then use the analog outs on the back to master with analog eq and compression onto vinyl or convert down at the end of the chain with high quality converters (like the ua 2192), how does this compare to say, printing to half inch?

Welcome to the forum. Now read the friggin thread!

Many people use them ... and records are being cut on them by experienced mixers all over the globe.

[stagefright]

Originally Posted by lucey

Welcome to the forum. Now read the friggin thread!

Many people use them ... and records are being cut on them by experienced mixers all over the globe.

Thank you!

I'm sorry. I see that many mixers are using them but I wasn't able to find anything about printing mixes to them, then playing the audio real time from the analog outs through analog mastering tools, then to vinyl or high end converters.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by stagefright

Thank you!

I'm sorry. I see that many mixers are using them but I wasn't able to find anything about printing mixes to them, then playing the audio real time from the analog outs through analog mastering tools, then to vinyl or high end converters.

Works amazingly well if you leave it at 5.6 DSD and master from there. I do that for a couple of clients, actually.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by stagefright

Thank you!

I'm sorry. I see that many mixers are using them but I wasn't able to find anything about printing mixes to them, then playing the audio real time from the analog outs through analog mastering tools, then to vinyl or high end converters.

I receive these mixes all the time as well for mastering. Works perfectly! thumbsup

Regards,

[zoom]

dsd simply doesn't fit into the standardized digital workflow on location. so the lonesome korg and its concept is still consumer gear until now.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by zoom

dsd simply doesn't fit into the standardized digital workflow on location. so the lonesome korg and its concept is still consumer gear until now.

What are talking about ... some kind of conceptual premise?

In reality, there are a number of high level releases using it as a mix device. There are many people using it for location recording.

Sounds like it's working just fine as a pro device.


Not to mention that DSD generally is very "pro", as in highest high end. This is an attempt to keep DSD alive at a lower price point, and it's a good thing!

[audiothings]

I also plan to experiment with M/S recording. I realize there isn't a M/S matrix in the MR-1000 and would do that processing in post. However, I would like to get a sense of what the mix might sound like while recording - to make sure the mics are well placed. Is there a cheap way to do this, perhaps from the headphone output?

sowter make the 8392 Mid-Side Decoder for Headphones... that and a couple of jacks should get you there...