Korg MR-1000 / 1bit-5.8MHz DSD portable recorder

[Gaston69]

I have new sound samples placed, please go to DPA-4060 vs DPA-4006 The Battle in the Remote possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording forum.

Gaston

[Shadow_7]

Does audiogate have a FOSS version. i.e. Can you run it in linux? I haven't run windows as my primary OS in a long long time. And I don't own any macs. Big or otherwise. If not, is audiogate Windows 95 compatible?

Does the unit come with an A/C adapter. For those times when you're not in the middle of a corn field and can tether down for the night.

[macula]

Where can I find the manual of AUDIOGATE in pdf? I really need to understand all the possible wrinkles on the workflow before deciding to buy this unit.

In particular: I am anxious to know whether using Audiogate for conversion requires that the MR-1000 be mounted as a hard drive, or not...

Thanx

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by macula

Where can I find the manual of AUDIOGATE in pdf?

Attached.

[macula]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

Attached.

Very much appreciated. Thank you!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by macula

In particular: I am anxious to know whether using Audiogate for conversion requires that the MR-1000 be mounted as a hard drive, or not...

Thanx

audiogate works when unmounted (on PC for sure)

[macula]

Originally Posted by lucey

audiogate works when unmounted (on PC for sure)

Thank you. But maybe I should rephrase the question for clarity: Is Audiogate able to "download" audio files from the Korg to the computer without mounting the Korg?

[macula]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

Attached.

Oops... I just noticed in the Audiogate manual that the MR-1000 is not able to play back audio files "downsampled" from 1-bit/5.6MHz to 16bit/88.2KHz... IS THAT TRUE??? Is it also true for "downsampling" to 24bit?

If so, this makes the Korg particularly inappropriate for monitoring without an extra D/A converter in the rig.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by macula

Thank you. But maybe I should rephrase the question for clarity: Is Audiogate able to "download" audio files from the Korg to the computer without mounting the Korg?

Audiogate changes DSD to PCM. The files are transfered as you drag/drop any files from any HD. So you need the Korg to be connected to transfer files.

Originally Posted by macula

Oops... I just noticed in the Audiogate manual that the MR-1000 is not able to play back audio files "downsampled" from 1-bit/5.6MHz to 16bit/88.2KHz... IS THAT TRUE??? Is it also true for "downsampling" to 24bit?

If so, this makes the Korg particularly inappropriate for monitoring without an extra D/A converter in the rig.

You monitor on the XLR outs of the Korg.

Audiogate makes PCM from DSD at 16, 24, or 32 float ... from 44.1 to 192, including all the rates in between.

[macula]

Originally Posted by lucey

You monitor on the XLR outs of the Korg.

Audiogate makes PCM from DSD at 16, 24, or 32 float ... from 44.1 to 192, including all the rates in between.

Thanks for the reply. However, I disagree. Here is an excerpt from the Audiogate manual (page 5):

If the bit depth is set to "32 bit (float)" or if the file format is set to "AIFF", the
MR-1000 and MR-1 will be unable to play back the file. The MR-1000 and MR-1
will also be unable to play back the file if you export a "16-bit" file at a sampling
frequency of "88.2 kHz" or higher.


Isn't this surprising and sad?

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by macula

Thanks for the reply. However, I disagree. Here is an excerpt from the Audiogate manual (page 5):

If the bit depth is set to "32 bit (float)" or if the file format is set to "AIFF", the
MR-1000 and MR-1 will be unable to play back the file. The MR-1000 and MR-1
will also be unable to play back the file if you export a "16-bit" file at a sampling
frequency of "88.2 kHz" or higher.


Isn't this surprising and sad?

No. The unit sounds great. Audiogate does a great job of format transfer. Works for me and all my clients. That's all that matters.

[macula]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

No. The unit sounds great. Audiogate does a great job of format transfer. Works for me and all my clients. That's all that matters.

I am sure it does a wonderful job for you, but in my case, without dedicated monitoring equipment (DA converter, speakers, etc.), the limitation is significant.

Unless of course I am wrong and the MR-1000 can play back any PCM format...

[lucey]

Originally Posted by macula

I am sure it does a wonderful job for you, but in my case, without dedicated monitoring equipment (DA converter, speakers, etc.), the limitation is significant.

Unless of course I am wrong and the MR-1000 can play back any PCM format...

The MR-1000 is not a DA converter for your PCM files except as an extra feature. It's a low cost, high quality DSD recorder, that allows monitoring while recording. Then it can play back your recorded files anytime from the internal HD and you can transfer them to PCM with the free software.

I dont know if it can or can't do what that manual says, the firmware has evolved, but don't get greedy if it doesn't do what you're after. A nice PCM DA converter starts at $750 and goes to $7500. This box is something else.

Originally Posted by macula

Thanks for the reply. However, I disagree. Here is an excerpt from the Audiogate manual (page 5):

My information was correct. The files it makes are to be used on your other converter/software set ups. Audiogate is only used when you leave the MR-1000. There would be no point to convert to 88.2 and play from the MR-1000.

[tnjazz]

Macula, I don't think we understand exactly what you're wanting to do?

Perhaps you could clarify? I don't see why anyone would want to record to DSD, downsample to 16/88.2 (or 16/96) and then play it back ON THE KORG.

You downsample on the computer anyway, so it doesn't make any sense to copy that file back to the Korg.

BTW, I just picked up another MR-1000 yesterday. I love these boxes.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by lucey

Audiogate changes DSD to PCM. The files are transfered as you drag/drop any files from any HD. So you need the Korg to be connected to transfer files.

So you had to connect the unit eh? Couldn't get file transfer to work via osmosis?

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

So you had to connect the unit eh? Couldn't get file transfer to work via osmosis?

Well, other units record to commonly supported formats to a card. The cards can be extracted and connected to the computer via other methods. I'm sure the internal harddrive probably could as well. Although not quite as plug and play as other methods. Not that there's anything wrong with usb-storage type connections. But does your most recent computer have a 1.44MB floppy drive? Do you expect your next one to have USB inputs? And many of the other 9 pin, 15 pin, and other mouse, keyboard, joystick, printer, modem, and various other connectors.

It's only been 28 years since the vic20. We've come a long way from tape drives and 5.25" floppies. And their predecessors, reel to reel and 12" / 10" floppies, or punch cards. One has to wonder that if we've come this far in that short of time, what if I don't buy today and hold off three or more months for the next best thing? Niagra IV, or whatever. Not that the Korg MR-1000 isn't great. But would I have fewer issues (conversion or otherwise) if I hold out. I guess I'm just waiting for the four channel version so I can pick up the 2 channel one cheap.

[macula]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Macula, I don't think we understand exactly what you're wanting to do?

Perhaps you could clarify? I don't see why anyone would want to record to DSD, downsample to 16/88.2 (or 16/96) and then play it back ON THE KORG.

You downsample on the computer anyway, so it doesn't make any sense to copy that file back to the Korg.

First of all, many thanks for the responses.

Now, here is my situation: Considering my limited budget I can either get the highly attractive MR-1000 and no D2A converter, or try to repress my desire for the Korg and spend the same money on a cheaper recorder/interface plus a cheap D/A for monitoring. If I succumb to the temptation and do get the MR-1000, I will have to monitor either directly from the recorder itself or directly through my Macbook's audio-out port, which is out of the question (noise, low quality).

This is why I hope the MR-1000 plays back 16/88.2 PCM files. If it doesn't, I will be basically unable to monitor my edited recordings in any decent manner until I have the budget for an external D/A converter.

Hope this makes sense now.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by macula

This is why I hope the MR-1000 plays back 16/88.2 PCM files. If it doesn't, I will be basically unable to monitor my edited recordings in any decent manner until I have the budget for an external D/A converter.

It will play back PCM files, all the way up to 192kHz and word lengths from 16 to 24 bit. If the files were recorded at the DSD rates, they'll have to be converted externally then moved back to the Korg. The Korg can't do SRC.

Hope that's what you were looking for!

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by macula

First of all, many thanks for the responses.

Now, here is my situation: Considering my limited budget I can either get the highly attractive MR-1000 and no D2A converter, or try to repress my desire for the Korg and spend the same money on a cheaper recorder/interface plus a cheap D/A for monitoring. If I succumb to the temptation and do get the MR-1000, I will have to monitor either directly from the recorder itself or directly through my Macbook's audio-out port, which is out of the question (noise, low quality).

This is why I hope the MR-1000 plays back 16/88.2 PCM files. If it doesn't, I will be basically unable to monitor my edited recordings in any decent manner until I have the budget for an external D/A converter.

Hope this makes sense now.

You can use 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 KHz PCM, or 2.8 and 5.6 MHz DSD recording and listening formats.

I just tried setting the recording format on the MR-1000 to 16/88 and it's not possible. For the higher sample rates (88.2 and above), you'll have to record at 24 bits, which is recommended anyway. Why limit yourself to the dynamic range of 16 bits, I don't get the point, especially when you're seeking the benefits of the higher sample rates. Even recording at 24 bits 44.1 KHz will give you more of an increase in audio quality than recording at 16 bits 88.2 KHz. Imo.


Mats Helgesson
LIVING SOUND

[lucey]

Originally Posted by macula

This is why I hope the MR-1000 plays back 16/88.2 PCM files. If it doesn't, I will be basically unable to monitor my edited recordings in any decent manner until I have the budget for an external D/A converter.

Hope this makes sense now.

Or you could convert to 24/44.1 .... 16/88.2 is important why?

I've tested this unit against some very high end ADs and even after converting to 24/44.1 it's as good as anything out there, better than most with the AD $175 mod. The main advantage is real depth, no smear. The stock AD conversion is a little dark and round on the bottom, but who cares, mix for that and have all the depth of DSD.

Higher rates are a game, the real changes happen with different converters (clock and analog stages especially). 24/44.1 after DSD 5.8 is just fine.

[videoteque]

BTW, I just picked up another MR-1000 yesterday. I love these boxes.

You should try to record with both for two hours and see how well they do sync...

[macula]

Thank you very much; it all makes sense now. I was mistakenly under the impression that 88.2 or higher playback is impossible at any bit rate (incl. 24 bits).

[macula]

Does anyone how the Korg compares with the Metric Halo ULN-2 interface?

In theory, the Korg should sound better. But I am a little worried about its analog part, the very area in which the Metric Halo excels, at a more or less equal price.

Thank you.

[RickZ]

I can't help with the ULN question, but after doing 4 recordings with MR-1000, and comparing them to many dozens of recordings with Grace V2 to RME Multiface II at 96/24, the MR-1000 mic input blows the older technology away.

Clarity is the main improvement, consonants from choir are just right. Bass response is similar, very solid.

This with same pair of TLM103 on stereo bar aimed rt/left about 45 degrees.

To clarify, the V2 was used with RME, not with Korg.

I think if you will be using phantom powered modern condenser mics, you should have no trouble using MR-1000 mic in, on low gain position.

FWIW,
Rgds,
Rick Z

[tnjazz]

The MR-1000 mic input is very hot. It's well worth carrying attenuators in your bag, just in case. Several pairs of mics I've used have been scorching hot with the gain knob at less than 9 o'clock. The Shure switchable attenuators help with this.

The Busman mod to the Korg helps with attenuation as well, I'm told.

As for comparing both, I've owned both. Still miss my ULN-2, but I wasn't using it enough to justify keeping it. The ULN-2 preamps are better, BUT the overall sound is better on the Korg in DSD mode. If you compared 24/96 recorded files head-to-head you would almost certainly pick the ULN-2. You can't really compare the two directly though, unless you run at PCM sample rates and that's not what the Korg is intended for anyway.

Macula, you're asking good questions but I think at some point you're just going to have to take a chance and buy something and see how you like it. We can tell you all day long how good or bad something is, but as you've seen on this forum (and probably many others), everyone has a different opinion.

Let your ears be your guide (and buy from a dealer with a good return policy!)

Good luck.

[Remoteness]

Yes, I also noticed that you need to attenuate the inputs when using mics with a lot of output gain.

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by Remoteness