Korg MR-1000 / 1bit-5.8MHz DSD portable recorder

[PMoshay]

The Mic pre was designed by a notable high end gear tech out of Nashville with the intent of it being able to capture as much dynamic range as possible and as clean and accurate as possible. After talking to many of the people who would be prospective users of the MR-1000, it seemed like most people had a favorite mic pre setup that they would use in combination with the MR. The consensus was to make the pre neutral & natural so that the engineer could color the track later if desired, but capture stuff with as much dynamic range & clarity as possible and keep the MR-1000 under 50lbs and battery operated if desired.
I've had excellent results with the internal mic pre's, and i've also used my ADL600 as the front end which was stunning. I've tried the Neve Portico series stuff and been very impressed, so i was thinking of getting a stereo Portico Pre which would keep the package down to about a minimum size, but maximum sound.

The real beauty of the 1bit format is that it captures everything with such detail and realism, just like the original source.

My description is: It's my dream, perfectly aligned Studer 1/2" machine with No Noise.

FYI - The line inputs do not color the sound at all, what you hear is what you get.

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by meatling

The problem I'm having with your attempts to "pass along real experiences" is that I can't translate that to what I'd experience myself. What is "very good indeed"? This opinion tells me nothing.

I've hard people calling the PMD670 "very good indeed", which alerts me to the fact that our individual thresholds for "very good indeed" are vastly different.

That's where actual numbers come in handy. Numbers don't lie, people do. So, when the numbers come from actual users and not the manufacturer's marketing department, they can actually help with a decision. Provided that you know how to read them.

this is a false dichotomy.

When in context, both opinions and numbers are helpful.

And both opinions and numbers can be misleading.

The way in which a unit (or anything, really) is evaluated can influence the objectivity of a measurement. And the more you drill into numbers, the more you see that they are really another form of opinion. Numbers can lie, opinions from a trusted source can be helpful, and vice versa. And every bit of evidence is potentially helpful (clustering of opinions or measurements, evidence of bias or objectivity, etc.).

Take it all in, brutha, add your own experience, stir, and swallow.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Reptil

I don't see a photo in that thread.
if you downloaded it, please post it here. I'm curious.

Strange that you can't see the pics. Maybe you need to be registered to see them?

Here they are.

[tsvisser]

thanks for the pictures... i could not see them either or the original site. this looks very promising. it looks like the 1.8" drive was used to conserve power... but there seems like plenty of room for a 2.5" drive with a minor modification. i think i'm going to order one and try this out.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Strange that you can't see the pics. Maybe you need to be registered to see them?

Here they are.

Thanks!! looks like a well thought out concept.
surface mount throughout

[trustynick]

Hey all,
Anyone with experience using both machines have any advice of deciding between the MR1000 and the Sound Devices 702? I've worked with the Sound Devices 722 extensively and have been really impressed with it's sound quality, design and construction. Now that the 7-series firmware supports recording to an external drive via firewire, the less expensive CF card-only 702 is an appealing option.

I am certainly interested in the Korg's 1 bit capabilities but will realistically be doing more recording in PCM for the time being. So my main concerns would be:

1. Quality of mic pres
2. Sturdiness of construction
3. ease of use and Reliability
4. Cost

Basically, if I am not ready to switch over to 1-bit for all of my work, is the MR1000 still a solid field recorder or would I be better off spending the extra money on the Sound Devices? Is the Korg at all in the same league as the 7-series?

Thanks,
Nick

[PMoshay]

Originally Posted by trustyn

I am certainly interested in the Korg's 1 bit capabilities but will realistically be doing more recording in PCM for the time being

You can choose to record in PCM on the MR-1000 device or just record in 1bit and convert with the included Audiogate software to almost any rate you want and still have the 1bit files for future use.
I mix everything at 1bit as well as PCM. If we had our old Hall & Oates masters converted from analog to 1bit, it would be nice to release a SACD of the remastered songs...... but with the masters being at so many different record companies theres no way to get everyone to agree to do anything. Some of the masters can't even be located.

Lesson learned here: Hold on to your masters & record at the highest quality possible, They just might make income over and over again for you.

[quantumpsych]

this is new to me, sorry if everyone wanted this thread to be dead and done with

as far implementation, it makes perfect sense for mixdown from an analog summing. if you're mixing from a PCM 24 session and summing on ANY analog board or device, this would be the perfect A/D conversion. i've been racking my brain for years as to the most perfect solution and this is it. very nice, can't wait to get my grubby paws on one.: )

happy independence day everyone!

[PMoshay]

Many people have asked here and contacted me to see if there will be a multitrack version of the MR recorders. I have not heard if they are or not, but it had been discussed from the start that if the interest in the 2 track version was there, that there would be reason for developing a multitrack version, and it seems like the response has been amazing so far.
I hope that people who have not yet tried it, will ask a dealer to take one for a demo and do a A/B comparason with the system they are using now......that includes people who bounce to disk. I have yet to have anyone not like the 1bit best, but don't take it from me...... Listen and see for yourself with your own setup.

I also know that archiving aging analog tapes to 1bit can be a very good source of income as well as a very smart idea.

Its very encouraging at least that now iTunes offers better quality downloads..........1 foot in the right direction at least........many miles to go still though.....

[DSD_Mastering]

I want digital IN/OUT!!!

Regards,
Bruce

[Sinewave]

Many people have asked here and contacted me to see if there will be a multitrack version of the MR recorders. I have not heard if they are or not, but it had been discussed from the start that if the interest in the 2 track version was there, that there would be reason for developing a multitrack version, and it seems like the response has been amazing so far.

Well they better make up thier mind soon, i got word that a particular manufacturer will be coming out with a PCIe card capable of DXD via AES3 later this year.

[Plush]

So What?

I'm happy with the way KORG has approached DSD.

[Sinewave]

I'm happy with the way KORG has approached DSD.
Today 02:57 PM

Which is really strange considering a lot of the negative things you had to say about DSD in past threads, all of a sudden you are happy with DSD , .

So What?

Not every thread is written with you in mind Senior Plush.

[abit]

One thing looks strange to me -
how come the didn't implement time code in there..

[Killahurts]

Originally Posted by PMoshay

Many people have asked here and contacted me to see if there will be a multitrack version of the MR recorders. I have not heard if they are or not, but it had been discussed from the start that if the interest in the 2 track version was there, that there would be reason for developing a multitrack version, and it seems like the response has been amazing so far.

I would be very interested in a multitrack version. I have not heard the 2-track version yet, but if I loved it, I wouldn't want to buy it twice, i.e. getting the stereo version now, and then having to get the surround version later on when it's offered.

[Sinewave]

Originally Posted by Killahurts

I would be very interested in a multitrack version. I have not heard the 2-track version yet, but if I loved it, I wouldn't want to buy it twice, i.e. getting the stereo version now, and then having to get the surround version later on when it's offered.

For a multitrack to make sense it would have to be cheaper than the current crop of DSD multitrack recorders and provide some sort of virtual mixer or else you would have to get an analog board to mix your tracks.
They would have to think of all that, maybe a korg DSD setup similar to the tascam x 48, or provide a DSD interface card plus software and allow customers to buy their own DSD converters ,maybe it's just a thought.

[PMoshay]

Originally Posted by Killahurts

I would be very interested in a multitrack version. I have not heard the 2-track version yet, but if I loved it, I wouldn't want to buy it twice, i.e. getting the stereo version now, and then having to get the surround version later on when it's offered.

I hear ya, but if i waited for all the things that i wanted other people to make for me, i'd never make a dime. It certainly would not be a hard item to resell to somebody later and you could have been using it all that time making money and enjoying it.
But if youre always doing surround, i would check out the Genex 9000 units starting around $4000 and up or just rent one when needed for around $250 day.

Doing one off DSD field recordings on battery power with a pro device thats sounds great and fits in a book bag is pretty dam cool.

[sonic_man]

Hi all,

I have been working with the MR-1000 for a couple of weeks now.

Generally, I have to say that the unit itself is pretty reliable, which means it hasn't let me down so far.

I am doing a number of classical music live recordings every year, sometimes multitrack, sometimes 2tk (mostly concerts where there is not a lot of time for set-up and soundcheck), and I am pretty sure that the MR-1000 will be my tool for this summer's recordings.

There have been a couple of questions regarding the preamp quality of the unit, so I did a small comparison to check out the SNR of the MR-1000's preamps:

The units I compared the MR-1k with were my trusty RME Fireface 800 and a Tascam HD-P2. The mic input gain of each unit was aligned with a 1kHz sinewave (-56 dBu) @ -20 dBFS, the tone generator was switched off (but not disconnected) and silence was recorded (@ 48kHz 24bit).

All of the files were imported into Wavelab to compare the RMS levels of the silence, and here's the outcome:

a) Tascam HD-P2 : noise floor -73,37 dBFS
b) RME FF800: noise floor -94,38 dBFS
c) Korg MR-1000: noise floor -81,93 dBFS

Regarding the pure sound of the MR-1000's preamps, I have to say that it's pretty hard to rate them at all. The adjective "concrete" comes to my mind when listening to them ... hard, precise, maybe a bit sterile.

I personally will be using a Sound Devices 302 (transformer-balanced) as front end, compared to the Korg's own pre's they add a bit of warmth and detail IMHO, apart from that I do 3-point stereo miking occasionally which needs a third mic-in

Yours,

Martin

[abit]

Hi Martin!
Thanx for the info.
When you say
"adjective "concrete" comes to my mind when listening to them ... hard, precise, maybe a bit sterile"

you feel about it in sort of positive way or not?
Thnx
abit

[sonic_man]

Hi Abit,

well, let's put it this way: I compared the mr-1000's onboard preamps with the 302 (as front-end), and I definitely felt that the 302 was a bit warmer, rounder sounding, it kinda highlighted other features of the music (the 302 is transformer based, I like that).

But on the long run, it's an ok preamp. Definitely better sounding than the Tascam unit, maybe not as good as the RME.

I just wished it had:

- a better SNR
- a warmer sound (preamp-wise, it's probably more or less a matter of taste)
- some kind of timecode option (with TC, it would be THE definite winner, maybe it is possible to implement that with some kind of USB-addon?!?)

But of course, one should not forget that the unit is able to do DSD, which, IMHO, gives a different quality to the recording even when converted to PCM.

Also, the price is pretty cool, so it's still a thrilling quality:bucks ratio that you get in the end.

As CD for me is still the final media that is used to deliver the finished masters to my clients, I went the following routes:

Route 1 (live recordings without editin):

1) Record in the best quality possible (5.6 Mhz DSD)
2) Pump those 2 channels through some analog gear for mastering (Amek/Neve, TLA, Urei)
3) Master directly to 44.1/16

Route 2 (lotsa editing):

1) same as above
2) convert to 96kHz 32bit with the Korg Software
3) edit & master inside Nuendo workstation w/ UAD-1 plugs

Either way, the material will sound superior to most PCM recordings.

I'd say give it a try,

all the best,

Martin

[abit]

I got the main idea, Martin.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.

[PMoshay]

As soon as you add "Timecode" to a unit, the price has to go way up.

Remember, when you add timecode chasing or recording, you need alot more real time processing power. It's alot more math happening in real time with the possibility of compromising your audio due to the timecode being a master (unless youre just recording it on a track).

If your incoming timecode is say 30 frames per second and it varies a small amount, your sample rate clock has to vary to compensate for the time change and to stay in sync, unless all devices are locked to a master clocking device (more $$$). Having a external DSD master clocking system that reads standard timecodes is not going to be a $1100 unit, not when your'e running at 5.6MHz.

I know that locking to timecode is a necessity for tons of people and there is no other options, but there probably won't be a cheap way to do it right without having to make some compromises or spending money on a Genex unit.

Last i heard, HD DVD's or Blue-Ray might top out at 96k PCM anyways (consumer releases). But at least there will be space if anyone wants to author a DSD Blue-Ray video...........if you have an editor to do it all on.....

Syncing audio to a video timecode has never been a great audio decision to make.

[audiothings]

sorry... double post.

[audiothings]

Hello Martin...

Its a coincidence that I was thinking about the 302-mr1000 combination for my work... as i'm resigned to the fact that two mics are not working for my situation. And Also, I happen to own an RME quadmic which i find too noisy for quiet things. I'm surprised that your figures indicate that the FF800's pres (the same as the quadmic's, as i understand) are the quietest.

Sorry to go OT here, but

1. have you compared the 302s to full size transformer pres? what were your conclusions? (how on earth did they get six transformers and all those electronics in such a small footprint, and whats the trade off?)

2. have you tried them with ribbons? what were your conclusions?

3. What sort of three mic stereo are you doing? decca tree? double m/s? something else?

Thanks,

[sonic_man]

Hi again,

Originally Posted by audiothings

I'm surprised that your figures indicate that the FF800's pres (the same as the quadmic's, as i understand) are the quietest.

I included some linear FFTs, pls judge for yourself.

Originally Posted by audiothings

1. have you compared the 302s to full size transformer pres? what were your conclusions? (how on earth did they get six transformers and all those electronics in such a small footprint, and whats the trade off?)

It's only 3 Lundahl transformers (the output is electronically balanced), the pots are high quality Clarostat conductive plastic, Neutrik connectors etc., so afaik only high quality components are used inside this box.

I actually do not know of any "trade-offs", please keep in mind that this 3 channel unit is more expensive than the MR-1000 recorder itself.
Surely (due to the design) the frequency response is not as ruler-flat as a well-designed electronically balanced preamp, but hey, the unit sounds good to me.

Originally Posted by audiothings

2. have you tried them with ribbons? what were your conclusions?

Sorry, I'm not using ribbon microphones for stereo / location recordings. Depending on the situation / location / budget DPA's (4006 omni / 4011 card), MBHO (OSS), Schoeps (MSTC 6), Rode (NT4/5) and AKG C414's are my choice.

Got one in the trunk for studio back-up vocals though .

Originally Posted by audiothings

3. What sort of three mic stereo are you doing? decca tree? double m/s? something else?

Sometimes Decca tree, sometimes weird stuff that I do not want to talk about in public, ah yes, and there's this location where I got great results using 2x 4011's in DIN config (flying) plus a C414 (card) in the middle.

In my opinion, the 302 is the perfect mate for the MR1K, as it offers a ton of features (3x mic preamp, M/S matrix, tone generator etc.) and still keeps you mobile (I'm using a petrol bag PSDMB-302 that offers room for the 302 + the MR1000).

Cheers,

Martin

[grsteve]

Hi All,
Just got my recorder last night

I can't for the life of me figure out how to reset the project/filename counter. After recording a few quick test tracks I deleted DFF_0001 - DFF_0003 (my tracks) but the unit continues to increment (resuming with 0004). Cycling power doesn't help. There's nothing in the manual I've found covering this.

Also, is there any way to pre-create a project name (such as Foley_SessionA_001) and have the machine increment based on the new name as you can with SoundDevices recorders?

BTW, If Korg has any user forums or even an email support address, they've managed to keep them very well hidden on their website.

Regards,
Steve

[eliottjames]

Originally Posted by sonic_man

Either way, the material will sound superior to most PCM recordings.

I'd say give it a try,

all the best,

Martin

Have you compared the DSD recording with the same material recorded to a PCM 24/96? Or have you transferred the DSD file to 24/96 PCM and noticed a difference in sound?

What I'm asking is do you believe DSD sounds better or have you proven it to sound better by direct comparison?

thanks

Eliott

[TAVD]

Originally Posted by eliottjames

Have you compared the DSD recording with the same material recorded to a PCM 24/96? Or have you transferred the DSD file to 24/96 PCM and noticed a difference in sound?

What I'm asking is do you believe DSD sounds better or have you proven it to sound better by direct comparison?

thanks

Eliott

I did a quick mixdown with a Korg MR-1 & Masterlink @ 24/96k, I thought the MR-1 was much better, even when converted from DSD to 24/96k. Once it gets down to mp3 though, it's a coin flip. I'm chomping at the bit for a multi-track HD DSD machine (that's affordable) and I'd like to see Korg offer some sort of editing software for download.

[eliottjames]

Thanks.

[sonic_man]

Hi Steve,

first, congrats regarding your purchase, you won't regret it.

Originally Posted by grsteve

Hi All,
Just got my recorder last night

I can't for the life of me figure out how to reset the project/filename counter. After recording a few quick test tracks I deleted DFF_0001 - DFF_0003 (my tracks) but the unit continues to increment (resuming with 0004). Cycling power doesn't help. There's nothing in the manual I've found covering this.

To reset the project counter, I did the following:

a) format HD
b) reset the unit to factory defaults (doesn't reset firmware)

Sounds a bit clumsy, but it works.

Originally Posted by grsteve

BTW, If Korg has any user forums or even an email support address, they've managed to keep them very well hidden on their website.

You can find the support email adresses under DISTRIBUTORS | KORG INC. , for the USA it should be support@korgusa.com .

Have fun,

Martin