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Using Schoeps cardioids to record live rock music (Patti Smith)
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Mark Maloof
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#1
12th October 2006
Old 12th October 2006
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Talking Using Schoeps cardioids to record live rock music (Patti Smith)

I do location sound (televison video, documentary, etc) for a living, have done some simple music recording on my own. I'm recording Patti Smith this sunday for a documentary on her, it's the last performance at CBGBs here in NYC. Sound will be fed wireless to two cameras as backup, and I'm using the Sound Devices 744T at 24/96 as my main recording source. I'm getting a line feed from Emery Dobsyn, her sound mixer. It's also going ot Sirius radio for broadcast, so it should be a nice mix. Both the documentary director and I agree that there should be room mics to pick up the sound of the club (air, audience sound, etc.) In fact, he is afraid the board sound will be "too clean", he may want to have more raw tracks. Anyways, I have used Schoeps before for vocal documentary work (have their amazing new shotgun mic), and a bit for quieter music, and know of their wonderful transparency. Just wondering if anyone thinks thay may not fair as well in a rock club enviornment. Their specs say they can handle 132 db, so I'm not too worried about them peaking out. I will be using my Sound Devices 442 mixer to power and mix them, has a good limiter, and I do have pads I can put in place if needed (but will try the first without at soundcheck.) My gut tells me the Schoeps will be better than my other choices (Sure VP88, Sanken stereo shotgun, Sennheiser 418.) I'm looking for compact, will be flying them from the ceiling (crazy packed crowed expected), and while the Schoeps on a stereo bar is a little wider than the stereo shotguns or Sure VP88, they should not take up too much realestate. It's going to be a quick and dirty set-up before soundcheck.
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12th October 2006
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If it were me, I would go for the Shure....I dont care for schoeps on that sort of material. (ive done two live rock concerts in the past 3 months and always found that other mics were better for the task)
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13th October 2006
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I would agree with Teddy. The Shure is perfect for this task. We have several venues in town that fly a VP88 above the stage for this very reason (to get some ambience into an otherwise dry soundboard feed).
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13th October 2006
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Man. I don't like the VP88 in general, but I would not subject MY Schoeps to CBGBs. Yikes!

If the mics belong to Sirius and not you, I'd probably be willing... but damn. Hard call. I'd probably take the line feed and the 416 shotgun.
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13th October 2006
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Welllllll....the Schoeps are rented. The Shure would also be rented. I'm thinking now about going with both, and switching between them at soundcheck, recording as much as I can, and then playing back the soundcheck to see which of the two mics might work better. One thing about the 418 vs the Schoeps and the Shure is that the 418 tops out around 120db according to its specs, but the Schoeps is 132db, and I believe the Shure is 120. I have also thought about the newer Sanken shotgun stereo mic.
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13th October 2006
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I dissagree with the above posters, the Schoeps would work fine, it may also be worth considering DPA's though I'm not sure how much rear rejection you are looking for (or not). Pair of KM140's would also do the job. All these would capture the "real" sound, the others are all more "eng" related. The only issue I would mention is that the schoeps are a little shy on the bass end, this might be an advantage, certainly the DPA's are full bass wise, in a club that might be too much for your recording.

Good luck!

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13th October 2006
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Just had another thought, try a Sennheiser 30/40 MS combo, that would probably be pretty perfect and give you some post production control.

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13th October 2006
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It's not like you're laying the microphones on the dance floor. Hanging in the air out of arm's (even jumping arm's) reach should be just fine. I don't own a pair of Schoeps but hope to one day, and one of their uses will probably be exactly what you are doing with them.
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13th October 2006
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13th October 2006
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the shure vp88 is a mid-side microphone, and he already has it.....
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13th October 2006
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If you rent the Schoeps (wich I reccommend), don't forget pads. They are not standard on the mic.
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13th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard View Post
the shure vp88 is a mid-side microphone, and he already has it.....
He did mention that the Shure was a hire. My only problem with the Shure is its primarily aimed at the ENG market, not "music" recording, the MKH 40/30 IMHO would be great for this application.

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14th October 2006
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Mark,

Keep us posted on how it went and what you ended up using.
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14th October 2006
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There was a lot of coverage on this show in the NY Times paper and many online news sources. How did it go?

After a) finishing a direct to DVD with Schoeps as audience/room mics and b) finding you were renting, I think using Schoeps is a great approach. I just would not want to put mine out unprotected in a club famous for thrown beer, y'know? Evidently musicians think that breaking gear is very punk rock... it's fine as long as they OWN the gear, but I have experienced too much the other way around.
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14th October 2006
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I think I need to buy a lot of dynamics for rock/dive enviroments..no way on God's green earth that I would take any of my condensors and/or ribbons in there...or anyone elses, for that matter. especially anyone elses. i know how i feel like an ashtray after waking up the next day..cant be good for the mics. wouldnt mind if I was hard on dynamics though.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
There was a lot of coverage on this show in the NY Times paper and many online news sources. How did it go?

After a) finishing a direct to DVD with Schoeps as audience/room mics and b) finding you were renting, I think using Schoeps is a great approach. I just would not want to put mine out unprotected in a club famous for thrown beer, y'know? Evidently musicians think that breaking gear is very punk rock... it's fine as long as they OWN the gear, but I have experienced too much the other way around.
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17th October 2006
Old 17th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.RayBullard View Post
I think I need to buy a lot of dynamics for rock/dive enviroments..no way on God's green earth that I would take any of my condensors and/or ribbons in there...or anyone elses, for that matter. especially anyone elses. i know how i feel like an ashtray after waking up the next day..cant be good for the mics. wouldnt mind if I was hard on dynamics though.
don't forget, there's no smoking in clubs here in nyc...
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17th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patchmonkey View Post
don't forget, there's no smoking in clubs here in nyc...
Tell that to the foggers and hazers used for the lighting. They leave immense amounts of residue on mic capsules. It's really disgusting!dfegad
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18th October 2006
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I'll post more tomorrow, but A) no smoke at CBGBs B) no smoke machine for a Patti Smith show C) no beer tossing, most of the crowd were in their 30s and 40s.

Short story, the Schoeps ruled! A quick use of the VP88 at soundcheck confirmed that while it's not bad, it's a toy compared to the pair of Schoeps.
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18th October 2006
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I never liked to VP88...

It's not my cup of tea.
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18th October 2006
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Yo, Steve,

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18th October 2006
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Deadheads have been taping shows with them forever and many of the recordings sound great.
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18th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Deadheads have been taping shows with them forever and many of the recordings sound great.
It's true, I forgot many of the Dead shows I visited were indoors, almost 1/3. But I consider our work quite different from that of a tapehead...although perhaps we are simply tapeheads on steroids.
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4th December 2006
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So, how did this gid turn out?
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