designing a vocal processing rig to use as a singer live...

BattleAngel · 3rd October 2006, 06:42 AM

folks- I'm starting to put together plans to build a somewhat sophisticated vocal processing rig to use when I perform with my band Arizona - lots of guitar players have sophisticated switching systems, effects processing, etc. and I am essentially looking to do the same thing but with vocal preamplification/effects manipulation and with 5 mics (each one of us in the band is a singer as well). Not looking to command a starship of effects, just organic sounds, easily programmed midi control for foot switching, some real-time control of parameters via one or two expression pedals. I'm not a technical guy at all and don't know where to start with this- I could control the system very well but could use some direction in designing the rig. Are there companies that specialize in live performance rigs that could be of service?

tomdarude · 3rd October 2006, 01:52 PM

nice finding a vocalist, who really cares about his live-sound!
can´t understand, why singer´s gear mostly consists of their own SM58, while the guitarists collect vintage guitars, multi-amp-setups etc.

you could simply start with a great vocal channel!
there are a sh*tload of options....

e.g. I´d start with

a Daking MicPre/EQ & a Daking FetComp

or Daking MicPre/EQ & a Cranesong Trakker

or a Buzzaudio ARC - channelstrip

....just my 2cts

max cooper · 3rd October 2006, 02:02 PM

My band did some shows with The Flys back in '01. The singer, Adam, sings thru two mics at once. One of the mics is routed through a processor he calls the "Nebulizer". There are controls on the mic itself so he can control the effects. It's pretty slick. I don't know who built it, but maybe someone here knows.

Chris Goss produced their first record.

Also might want to check out the TC Helicon Voice Live. It's a foot controlled voice processor. I think about $800. It's also got a mic preamp in it which makes routing easier.

http://www.tc-helicon.com/VoiceLive

dbbubba · 3rd October 2006, 03:24 PM

OK, first realize that you are going into somewhat un-charted territory.
Second, you are setting up the potential for a lot of problems unless you REALLY know what you are doing.

I have provided audio for about ninety-five BILLION bands ranging from people that you have heard of to absolute beginners. I can safely say that only a tiny, miniscule number of them were qualified to "improve" on anything I/we were doing for them. That sounds big-headed, but it is fact. Take it or leave it.

If you are just wanting to provide FX like echo, verb, chorusing, doubling then I guess that you can do it fairly safely. I would recommend NOT sending a combined dry/FX signal to the mixer. I would always send a dry signal and a seperate FX signal. Hopefully you have a F.O.H. mixer and you just have to trust him to balance the dry vs. the FX.

If you are thinking of a "better" mic pre, EQ and compressor chain then all I can say is GO SLOW and consult a GOOD live audio person. Don't get too heavy handed and realize that any one setting is not going to work in all situations.

Are you using your own (or the band's) p.a. rig? The last place that money and time is ever spent on a professional rig is with the FX. There are generally so many ways to improve the sound with the console, drive processing, amps and speaker arrays before you ever need front end stuff. Is your main rig together to the point that front end "improvements" will help?

If you are using other people's rigs (house sound systems) you need to provide the F.O.H. person some flexibilty. If a performer brought better stuff than I have on hand I'd probebly use it, but it'd have to be pretty good stuff! I wouldn't want preset compressor for sure or anything run from the stage. Then again, a pro would know better than to send you one effected line anyways.

I'll be REALLY honest with you.
I see VERY FEW personally owned p.a. rigs that are set up to their full potential.
I see very few club level rigs that are set up correctly. There are bigger places that hire pros out there however.
This isn't a matter of opinion. It is due to the fact that there is a lot more gear out in the world than people who know how to use it. Most pro sound people do the same stuff and use the same practices. There is a standard.

I'll even be more honest with you...
Many people destroy their sound by hooking too much stuff.
This is true of GTR players, bass players and KYBD players.

My advice?
Befriend a good sound person.
Pay him to mix your shows.
Trust the sound person at the venue.
Hopefully you will play places with a good rig!

Above all... don't make maters worse by throwing gear at the issue.
Take care of the big stuff first.

The best performers I deal with use the mic(s) I provide and trust me.
Good performers want a mic and a p.a. that works. and covers the room.
I have had the request to use "no FX" more than not, too!
That's good with me because I use very little.
Pros know that there is a huge potential for problems.
the less the better.

Danny Brown

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3rd October 2006, 06:42 AM	#1
BattleAngel Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 930	designing a vocal processing rig to use as a singer live... folks- I'm starting to put together plans to build a somewhat sophisticated vocal processing rig to use when I perform with my band Arizona - lots of guitar players have sophisticated switching systems, effects processing, etc. and I am essentially looking to do the same thing but with vocal preamplification/effects manipulation and with 5 mics (each one of us in the band is a singer as well). Not looking to command a starship of effects, just organic sounds, easily programmed midi control for foot switching, some real-time control of parameters via one or two expression pedals. I'm not a technical guy at all and don't know where to start with this- I could control the system very well but could use some direction in designing the rig. Are there companies that specialize in live performance rigs that could be of service?

3rd October 2006, 01:52 PM	#2
tomdarude Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: cologne, germany Posts: 823	nice finding a vocalist, who really cares about his live-sound! can´t understand, why singer´s gear mostly consists of their own SM58, while the guitarists collect vintage guitars, multi-amp-setups etc. you could simply start with a great vocal channel! there are a shtload of options.... e.g. I´d start with a Daking MicPre/EQ & a Daking FetComp or Daking MicPre/EQ & a Cranesong Trakker or a Buzzaudio ARC - channelstrip ....just my 2cts __________________ "You'd be surprised that "fck it!" can be a profound philosophy." picksail; 28th August 2008, 08:55 AM "The best sounding sluttiest gear of all time... is a great song" --Greg Wells

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3rd October 2006, 02:02 PM	#3
max cooper Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: tx Posts: 8,819	My band did some shows with The Flys back in '01. The singer, Adam, sings thru two mics at once. One of the mics is routed through a processor he calls the "Nebulizer". There are controls on the mic itself so he can control the effects. It's pretty slick. I don't know who built it, but maybe someone here knows. Chris Goss produced their first record. Also might want to check out the TC Helicon Voice Live. It's a foot controlled voice processor. I think about $800. It's also got a mic preamp in it which makes routing easier. http://www.tc-helicon.com/VoiceLive

3rd October 2006, 03:24 PM	#4
dbbubba Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,839	OK, first realize that you are going into somewhat un-charted territory. Second, you are setting up the potential for a lot of problems unless you REALLY know what you are doing. I have provided audio for about ninety-five BILLION bands ranging from people that you have heard of to absolute beginners. I can safely say that only a tiny, miniscule number of them were qualified to "improve" on anything I/we were doing for them. That sounds big-headed, but it is fact. Take it or leave it. If you are just wanting to provide FX like echo, verb, chorusing, doubling then I guess that you can do it fairly safely. I would recommend NOT sending a combined dry/FX signal to the mixer. I would always send a dry signal and a seperate FX signal. Hopefully you have a F.O.H. mixer and you just have to trust him to balance the dry vs. the FX. If you are thinking of a "better" mic pre, EQ and compressor chain then all I can say is GO SLOW and consult a GOOD live audio person. Don't get too heavy handed and realize that any one setting is not going to work in all situations. Are you using your own (or the band's) p.a. rig? The last place that money and time is ever spent on a professional rig is with the FX. There are generally so many ways to improve the sound with the console, drive processing, amps and speaker arrays before you ever need front end stuff. Is your main rig together to the point that front end "improvements" will help? If you are using other people's rigs (house sound systems) you need to provide the F.O.H. person some flexibilty. If a performer brought better stuff than I have on hand I'd probebly use it, but it'd have to be pretty good stuff! I wouldn't want preset compressor for sure or anything run from the stage. Then again, a pro would know better than to send you one effected line anyways. I'll be REALLY honest with you. I see VERY FEW personally owned p.a. rigs that are set up to their full potential. I see very few club level rigs that are set up correctly. There are bigger places that hire pros out there however. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is due to the fact that there is a lot more gear out in the world than people who know how to use it. Most pro sound people do the same stuff and use the same practices. There is a standard. I'll even be more honest with you... Many people destroy their sound by hooking too much stuff. This is true of GTR players, bass players and KYBD players. My advice? Befriend a good sound person. Pay him to mix your shows. Trust the sound person at the venue. Hopefully you will play places with a good rig! Above all... don't make maters worse by throwing gear at the issue. Take care of the big stuff first. The best performers I deal with use the mic(s) I provide and trust me. Good performers want a mic and a p.a. that works. and covers the room. I have had the request to use "no FX" more than not, too! That's good with me because I use very little. Pros know that there is a huge potential for problems. the less the better. Danny Brown