Hiring an orchestra...

[keithrt99]

I wasn't sure which forum to post this in, so here it is. I have always dreamt of having an orchestra on a future cd of mine, so i got around to thinking. I was just curious what are the average rates per player or 12/full ( i was thinking like 40 something roughly) person orchestra in eastern europe? (Czech rep. / Hungary etc.) I was also curious about how that cost would compare to say china. Also how does it compare to an american one?

Anyone who's had experience with hiring an orchestra please chime in. Thanks.

[DavidKakon]

I just hired a 10 piece + conductor, about 450 each, double for the conductor. This gives me 1 hour rehearsal, 1.5 hours soundcheck and a 3 hour session.

For larger stuff I know that alot of productions here (Montreal) go to east europe where the quality is very high and labour is cheaper

hope this helps

david

[sedohr]

A few weeks ago I did a recording with an orchestra. I took 4 sessions (4 hrs each). It cost me around 13.000 - 14.000 euros with 2 engineers, a conductor and pro tools system. The orchestra included 34 players for 2 sessions, 28 for the latter 2 sessions.

And the orchestra was very good.

Kalli

[classicalrecord]

For southern California (LA) it would depend on if you did it union or not. Union is pretty much prohibitively expensive-- hmm, wonder why all the movie scoring has been migrating elsewhere for years now... anyway, I digress. As a performer myself, who finished grad school a couple years ago, I play on some smaller budget film scoring type sessions now and again and we often do this sort of thing for as little as $100 for three hours and these are great musicians, just younger guys who are tying to work their way up. Generally speaking brass and woodwind players will be less expensive and have less attitude than string players-- sorry to offend anyone but years in the classical music world have led me rather conclusively to this opinion. Anyway, to do it locally, you'll need at least $100-150 a person-- I could point you in the right direction if needed as I have many friends/musicians.
my 2 cents

[stevep]

Originally Posted by classicalrecord

For southern California (LA) it would depend on if you did it union or not. Union is pretty much prohibitively expensive-- hmm, wonder why all the movie scoring has been migrating elsewhere for years now... anyway, I digress. As a performer myself, who finished grad school a couple years ago, I play on some smaller budget film scoring type sessions now and again and we often do this sort of thing for as little as $100 for three hours and these are great musicians, just younger guys who are tying to work their way up. Generally speaking brass and woodwind players will be less expensive and have less attitude than string players-- sorry to offend anyone but years in the classical music world have led me rather conclusively to this opinion. Anyway, to do it locally, you'll need at least $100-150 a person-- I could point you in the right direction if needed as I have many friends/musicians.
my 2 cents

Cool

I might be calling you to do some work for me, i have a few projects in the next few months.



steve




.

[klaukholm]

We hire up to 110 players as freelancers, the cheaper option is, however, to hire a preexisting orchestra.
40 to 50 players could be quite reasonable if we go with the small (50 piece) orchestras in copenhagen. You get click, protools, Prism, M150s etc. PM me for details and LA referances if you are interested.

[tzujan]

A little side note for budgeting - I have found with string players, you are better off both sonically and financially having an A+ quartet, possibly doubling their parts, than you are a 30+ string section of A or A- players.

[klaukholm]

I disagree. The sound of 30 violins in one room cannot be recreated through creative doubling of a quartet.
That is not to say it cannot be a interesting sound, but it aint no orchestra.
Good orchestral string players play very differently from good quartet players.
Vibrato is leaner and the bowspeed and articulation is often different.

[audiomichael]

Orchestra.net is amazing. It's a linkup with the Prague orchestra, and you control the session from the satellite studio in Santa Monica (or from your own computer with their software).

[klaukholm]

Its fancey, but you can in no way have accurate and good monitoring and as such you are at the mercy of local engineers.

You might as well send us the work and we charge by the minute of finished product, but you have zero control over the process. I believe clients need to be there or have someone they completely trust in charge, otherwise they will only be disappointed in the end.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by tzujan

A little side note for budgeting - I have found with string players, you are better off both sonically and financially having an A+ quartet, possibly doubling their parts, than you are a 30+ string section of A or A- players.

Ouch, no! Mr. Laukholm is correct, the sound of 30+ violins is radically different than the sound of 8. And the sound of 12 players together is substantially (if not radically) different than the sound of a quartet overdubbed twice.

If you don't have the budget for a 30+ orchestra, I'd advocate getting a dozen players & augmenting them with :::shudder::: samples.

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

Orchestra.net is amazing. It's a linkup with the Prague orchestra, and you control the session from the satellite studio in Santa Monica (or from your own computer with their software).

That's pretty cool! A friend of mine recorded an orch score for a film using the Prague orch, but they were there in person. I think the whole thing cost around 35k.

-matt

[Cornvalley]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I disagree. The sound of 30 violins in one room cannot be recreated through creative doubling of a quartet.
That is not to say it cannot be a interesting sound, but it aint no orchestra.
Good orchestral string players play very differently from good quartet players.
Vibrato is leaner and the bowspeed and articulation is often different.

Are you saying that a good string player cannot play as if they were in a large section and overdub themselves with that in mind?
"Nah, I'm a quartet player and I ain't changin' my bowspeed and articulation for nothin' ... Vibrato? I'll show ya some vibrato!! Take that ya penny pinching contractor!!!

C'mon...

[reid]

Originally Posted by Cornvalley

Are you saying that a good string player cannot play as if they were in a large section and overdub themselves with that in mind?
"Nah, I'm a quartet player and I ain't changin' my bowspeed and articulation for nothin' ... Vibrato? I'll show ya some vibrato!! Take that ya penny pinching contractor!!!

C'mon...

Don't know if you're intending to be provocative or just messing around, but I think you're missing the point. In no way does the sound of 4 / 6 / 8 players overdubbed several times, equal the sound of a full string section playing 'in anger'.

The easy way to find out, is to try it and see. But instead of wasting your money, why not just accept the word of someone, like Klaukholm, who does this stuff for real? It's the difference between opinion and fact. tutt

[Cornvalley]

It's obviously a very respectable view and so obviously true. It does not, however, mean that something approximating it cannot be employed in a pinch (so to speak). Solutions my friend, that's all. They do exist.

[Mike Caffrey]

Jano Dosek is a great engineer who works in the Czech and Slovak Republics.

If you have him tracking the orchestra, you'll only have to worry about performance.

I'm sure you can also have him FTP you an .aiff file at the beginning to check the sounds.

[tzujan]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I disagree. The sound of 30 violins in one room cannot be recreated through creative doubling of a quartet.
That is not to say it cannot be a interesting sound, but it aint no orchestra.
Good orchestral string players play very differently from good quartet players.
Vibrato is leaner and the bowspeed and articulation is often different.

Maybe I should have said 30 B or B+ players. All I am saying is that a small group of killer players is going to sound better, even stronger than a larger group of average players. I have experienced this first had as a composer, where I have used a large 'budget orchestra' and the sound is small compared to projects with fewer players of amazing talent. If they are doubling and you don't want a chamber sound you have them play as if they are sitting in an orchestra not in a quartet. And when I think A+ quartet for this job I'm not thinking Kronos or the Emerson, more like individual players from an LA session orchestra where they know the goal as well as the the bow-speed, articulation and vibrato required. I am aware of the different sounds of various sizes of groupings - IMO on a budget you are better off with a small group great players - orchestrate accordingly.

Furthermore, I have been a part of huge sessions at Sony where an 85 piece orchestra is doing 12+ minutes of music per hour! You compare that to some Czech sessions that I have done where you would be lucky, and thrilled, to get 12+ minutes of music for a 3 hour session! The cost difference starts to shrink. I have an A list orchestrator friend who loves recording in London, which is somewhere between LA and Czech costs wise (closer to LA), while he claims a better recording orchestra.

[fifthcircle]

If this isn't for a score, there are a number of ways that you can budget this stuff where it won't break the bank here in LA. Scores really should be union or you can get in some pretty hot water, but plain music dates are pretty easy on budget (relatively speaking). With scoring, if the movie is a small indi one/student flick, etc... you can even get away with good work with a non-union group. You just don't want something that is going to end up in theaters being recorded non-union here in town.

I've done a number of sessions around town that fit that bill... If you need a hand, drop me a line off the forum...

--Ben