Splitter / Splitter-Snake

[jazzbutcher]

Howdy,

I need some advice on splitter boxes and/or splitter-snakes for live recording purposes.

I've engineered a number of live recordings using my Mac-based Motu896 + PresonusDigimax setup (16 channels). Sometimes i do this by taking direct outs off the FOH board and other times i rent a splitter or splitter-snake from my local PA/production company and bring in a rack of pre's and stuff.

The splitter i've rented from my local production company has been pretty shabby and beat up and on the last few occasions, more unreliable than i am comfortable with. Shorts, ground loop issues, etc...

Could you guys give me some advice on some decent makes/models of decent splitters or splitter snakes? The last one i rented was horrific (as i later discovered it was just a box with plugs/sockets in it - no isolation transformers, etc). What should i be looking for in a good splitter or splitter snake? How much is a reasonable price? I've asked my local dealer, but i think they only know how to answer a question if one of their suppliers has a product that sounds right. I'd prefer some more experienced advice!

I guess i am open to either buying a splitter-snake or seperate splitter and snake (as the snake i have now is too short and only 8 channels, so i need a new one).

I guess i just want to make sure if i spend some money for this stuff, i'm gonna end up buying something that will keep me from having ground-loop problems or other 'gotchas' in a live-recording situation.

Are there other issues i should be aware of when doing this kind of recording work? I've gotten some good results, but i've also had too many frustrating close-calls trying to solve problems that seem like they result from sketchy wiring or other hard-to-place voodoo...

Any advice appreciated!


thanks,

-dave

[JayCrouch]

if you wanted an off the shelf solution, you would probbably look at vendors such as whirlwind or rapco for starters...

why not build what you need for youself?

Lets say you need 16 channels of split - 2-way, x-former isolated, and with ground lifts.

Basically the formula is:

cost of a stagebox that is large enough for 16 panel mount XLRs along with 16 ground lift switches, and two 56 pin ELCO connectors.

You then need to decide what brand box, XLRs, switches, and most importantly x-formers you want to go with. You are looking at spending a decent a mount of money per channel on x-formers, even if you go with whirlwind trannies you are probbably looking at spending $35 per hannel minimum. (someone please correct me if I am wrong). Besides that the costs lie in the XLRs, ELCO connectors and hoods, multipair cable, and your time needed to put it all together.

Having a box with 2 ECLOs for your outputs (one for the direct split, and one for the isolated) works well. This way you can have two fan outs - one that is no more than 10-20' for going from your splitter to the house's stagebox or console, and another much longer one to reach your recording position.

I'm sure Steve will chime in and give you a few ideas as well, he also sells all the parts necessary.

[Remoteness]

Dave,

You've come to the right place.
Splitters & snakes for recording purposes -- It's totally our bag around here.

Just because someone says, it's a splitter, doesn't mean it's isolated.
How many splits do you need? I'm guessing one direct and an iso will do just fine for your application. Now, let's add a ground lift switch for each isolated output...

An eight channel transformer isolated splitter box could be a fun wiring project. The more channels the merrier. All you need is a nice heavy duty chassis. Some good sounding iron, connectors, switches, etc. And you're on your way. You can even buy the chassis with holes prepunched.

Depending on the transformers and other parts, the box can cost you four to nine hundred dollars US for an eight channel unit. Building them yourself, will save you the labor cost, but not much else if you're only buying a few of everything.

Whirlwind makes a nice little splitters that work well. Other companies make similar units that are also rock solid. PM (or email) me, I may have something in stock you'd be interested in.

I prefer separate splitters rather then a splitter-snake combo unless it has detachable multipins. IMO, I find it a lot more versatile. Especially when you show up to a gig that's already setup. Everything is run and placed, now you show up... You can decide to drop your splitter at FOH or at the stage box. The choice is yours to make. Why should you deal with long snakes that are tethered to your splitter box? Multipins are awesome but pricey. IMO, individual XLRs and fan to fan XLR snakes will work best in a small splitter situation (16 channels or less). Just pick the right snake lengths you need and everything works a bit cleaner and easier.

I hope this helped.

[Remoteness]

If you haven't read this yet.
Here's a cool thread on splitters.
Why do you want to go split that perfectly good mic anyway?

[jazzbutcher]

Steve, Jay,


Thanks for the advice and some pointers to articles....I've been slowly absorbing all the articles and past discussions in this forum on splitters and stuff.

I'd love to build my own, but honestly, i don't have the time right now, i'm sorry to say. It seems it would be a fairly straight-forward soldering job and not that tough once you had all the parts. Alas, i think i need to grab something off the shelf, or something someone has custom-made on their own for sale. But yikes, some of these boxes ain't cheap, even for the small ones.

However, at the moment, i like the looks of the WireWorks stage-box-style splitters. One primary, one isolated feed - that's all i will need.

Any suggestions for other brands/models?

I read about some of the fancier splitters with controlable phantom power, etc... Very nice indeed, Steve - maybe more than i need (or can afford!). I guess i was just counting on supplying phantom power via my pre's (or letting the FOH do it if they are fussy).


I guess i will need to invest in some short snakes/patch-cables that just go Male-XLR -> Female XLR for patching between splitter and FOH snake and recording-desk snake...unless i get a splitter with one of those large multi-pin connectors on it that fans out into a messa XLR connectors (pluses/minuses?).


thanks again,

-dave

[JayCrouch]

Originally posted by jazzbutcher
I guess i was just counting on supplying phantom power via my pre's (or letting the FOH do it if they are fussy).

Keep in mind that only the direct side of the split can send the 48v phantom down to the microphones. Some wire up a splitter system that contains a 48v power supply with switches on each channel. This way they can both have reliable voltage, and do their own thing regardless if they are taking the tranny side of a split. Doing this ends up being the cost of x amount of switches, x amounts of channels wired, and a power supply that can handle draw for as many channels as you may need.

I guess i will need to invest in some short snakes/patch-cables that just go Male-XLR -> Female XLR for patching between splitter and FOH snake and recording-desk snake...unless i get a splitter with one of those large multi-pin connectors on it that fans out into a messa XLR connectors (pluses/minuses?).

I can't see many downsides for having fan>fan snakes as long as you are doing something under 16 channels. Multi-Pins are nicer in ways, yet they are something you can choose not to do. Last time I checked, XLRs have been in style for a while now...

[dynamo]

16 Jensen transformers = $ 840
Middle Atlantic 2 u. rack chassis, punched panels and other hardware = $150
48 Neutrik XLR's, 16 film resistors, 16 quality switches ( ground lift ) = $200
time spent to put all togheter = 5 hours ( about..)
having a quality splitter done the way i wanted = PRICELESS

I was in your same situation a while ago. I needed exactly the same : 16 channels with just an iso out. Checking around....Whirlwind has nice rack mounting units with 4 inputs 1 direct and 1 or 2/3 isolated outs..They are about $ 400 each ( probably more ). That's about $ 1600 for 16 channels.
The stage boxes splitter ( with transformers ) may be more economic but you have to go with their multipair snakes.
I liked to have a choice for the snake brand and lenghts plus having a separate snake ( and connectors ) makes life easier in case of poblems.

The modular thing is cool. Sometime you may not need 16 channels. You can eventually start with 2 boxes and go from there. They have all XLR's i/o's. Palmer is another company you may want to check. Still for a 16 channel system you are looking at around the same as Whirlwind. I guess.
Companies that are using Jensen transformers are Radial and the quoted Wireworks. You may want to check their prices but i don't think there is nothing less than $ 800 for a simple 8 channel 1:1 splitter ).
I personally wanted the best quality and went with Jensen. From there, since my limited budget, i've decided to built the box. It's all wired point to point, the little jumpers for direct outs connections are done with ofc, and i've used Cardas eutectic solder all the way. I'm very proud of it. I have to add that the tech support from Jensen is excellent and you have all info and schematics on their website to get it done in the best way.

About the multipin. They are a necessity when you are dealing with a lot of lines and 3 or more outs. For a simple 16 channel 1 direct and 1 iso i really don't see the need. I would go all XLR's.Think also troubleshooting on the field.

[JayCrouch]

Dynamo, thanks for the contribution.

Any chance you could take a picture or two of your splitter for all to ses?

thanks,

[dynamo]

My pleasure. Sure..I apologize for quality but it's a cloudy day...

[dynamo]

And here's the inside..i used a " floating " solution so to have easy reach to all parts from the top and the bottom of the unit. The wires from transformers are directly connected to the XLR's pins. The resistors ( hard to see ) are joined to the pins of the iso outs so to avoid any extra wiring. I've omitted the RF capacitors network.

[JayCrouch]

Originally posted by dynamo
I apologize for quality but it's a cloudy day...

I feel you sir, I'm up just a bit north of you in CT.

Can anyone remind me again why I have not made the move to L.A. yet? Oh yes that's right, they have a new man in office over in the sunshine state...