Recording Soprano Sax

[Bob Olhsson]

I always try a 57 on soprano in addition to the high priced spread. Sometimes it wins big-time.

[TanTan]

Originally Posted by pegleg

Interesting; with a hypercardioid mic, the player can't move around too much. How close?

they usually seat ..

[David R.]

My current favorite for sax is the RE20.

If you want more room sound, use your best LD condenser in combination. Just remember the 3:1 rule.

[obostic]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the replies. I pretty much got the sound that the soprano sax player was after.

Here is what I ended up with:

(1)TLM170 2" above the bell and 12" back on axis with the player.
(2)C800G placed on axis with neumann at about the player height following the 3 to 1 rule. And all is well!

In retrospect, I believe there were two main problems phasing and the Sony wasn't the best choice for the bell.

Again, thanks for all the input.

[drtaudio]

Hi Guys, I would go with whatever microphone they used to record Wayne Shorter on Herbie Hancock's Joni Letters CD.


It won the Grammy for best record of the year in 2007.

You should go and listen to Shorter on this recording and see how close you are. Its a wonderful and clean sound.

The engineer was Helix Hadar.

If you find out let me know as I would love to build some microphones for our line that would help get this sound.

Have you tried putting the microphones in OMNI???

I remember using a U47 on Paul Horn's Alto Saxophone back in 1980 and it sounded wonderful.

Cheers, Dave Thomas
Advanced Audio Microphones

Originally Posted by obostic

Hi Guys,

I need some advice recording soprano sax. This is my first major project recording a solo sax player and not as easy as I initially thought .

I have a pretty good room and a damn good player, but the recording sound is not as prominent as major releases. In fact, no matter what mic combination the recording is still thin sounding. I've tried multing, adding delay anywhere from 30ms doubling to 60ms slapback, and a nice hall reverb with just minor improvements. I've also checked for any phasing issues by rotating each mic position still no change. I know that there isn't much bottom below 160Hz, but there is plenty between say 200hz and 500hz to get a nice rich sound.

Here is the recording setup, which of course maybe the wrong mic selection, but this combination yielded the best results from my locker:

U47w directed at top keys about 12"-18" out in front of the player
C800g 8"-12" in front of the bell off-axis and this is because the player loves the reed noise. In fact that combination yields a gorgeous sound, but simply lack depth and richness.

I recorded both mics with no compression into a pair of Chandler LTD-1s->Lavry Blue A/D->Sequoia DAW. For those of you that have achieved that nice rich sound and don't mind sharing, I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

[7rojo7]

A curved Soprano sounds less nasal
It's the best sounding of all saxophones to me. 1 mic where it sounds good and the player can feed on that
2 mics for a straight soprano, I've tried my hardest and have never been able to get away with one, yet I always try. I can get a nice airy top sound or a nasal bell sound, but there's something about the distance of those between each other that, in the end, makes me put up 2. Clarinet works much the same but I can use 1 mic on Bass Clarinet, usually, no problem.
Standard procedure for recording winds is 2 per instrument. Really nice is a ribbon up top ( null towards the bell)and something fat on the bell. Baris present a different problem because the top and the bell are in the same place, but you can get some great bass from the keys.
These days you can record them all to separate tracks without worrying about running out of space. mixing you can actually control the perceived depth, back off on the bell and it seems farther away. or use like a tone control
EQ? we don't need no stinkin EQ!
Curved soprano sax is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard, like a violin
I have a player (actually I know 3) that does all saxes, clarinets and flutes, live, we set up a stereo mic (sideways, vertically) and one for the bell (all mixed to mono, in the studio I'll put a stereo horizontally in the bell position), and he just moves himself around in that zone, no phasing problems whatsoever, he's able to mix himself by using 'mic technique', imagine that.
Sometimes in overly live rooms an instrument can 'cave in on itself' and 1 or 2 mics is not going to make a difference
try recording an operatic Soprano in a bathroom, you can get a nice sfsx recording of glass breaking and tiles falling off the walls, but no Soprano.

[klaukholm]

while it is useful to know what was used on a player like Shorter, I think it would be more useful to look at the placement of the mic rather than the type.
As an anecdote, the best clarinetsound I have gotten was with an MKH800, that was with the new principal clarinet of concertgebouw. The worst clarinetsound I have gotten was with the same mic on a lesser player, AWFUL! TLM170 and mkh8040 did much better.
The point is that there is a lot of different sounding players out there.

[RMJAZZ]

Hey brother- I'm a sax player and can tell you the C800 is absolutely the problem. Put the U47 up close to the bell of the horn, and then find another mic that would work to the right, and slightly above the sax.

Sax is one of the hardest instruments to get right in the studio, most people do not get it right. Mic choice and placement are the most important thing for you, the chandler pre is perfect for sax!!!!!! I use an LTD1.

Have fun and let me know how it turns out.
Rob

Originally Posted by obostic

Hi Guys,

I need some advice recording soprano sax. This is my first major project recording a solo sax player and not as easy as I initially thought .

I have a pretty good room and a damn good player, but the recording sound is not as prominent as major releases. In fact, no matter what mic combination the recording is still thin sounding. I've tried multing, adding delay anywhere from 30ms doubling to 60ms slapback, and a nice hall reverb with just minor improvements. I've also checked for any phasing issues by rotating each mic position still no change. I know that there isn't much bottom below 160Hz, but there is plenty between say 200hz and 500hz to get a nice rich sound.

Here is the recording setup, which of course maybe the wrong mic selection, but this combination yielded the best results from my locker:

U47w directed at top keys about 12"-18" out in front of the player
C800g 8"-12" in front of the bell off-axis and this is because the player loves the reed noise. In fact that combination yields a gorgeous sound, but simply lack depth and richness.

I recorded both mics with no compression into a pair of Chandler LTD-1s->Lavry Blue A/D->Sequoia DAW. For those of you that have achieved that nice rich sound and don't mind sharing, I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks in advance.

[NorseHorse]

I thought I posted this already, but here goes again:

[boojum]

^^^^^ Interesting. The "58" did alright compared to some of the other mics. And, you can hammer nails with it. ;o)

Nice test but - warning, complaint starts here - I would have liked it better if all the tested mics were working at the same time for a true test. Very good nevertheless.

Thanks for the link.

[obostic]

You guys have to start checking post dates. LOL!

[ajfarber]

Well, there are as many different mic flavours as there are soprano players. There is no right answer here. All of the suggestions will work.

As a saxophonist myself, I tend to prefer a darker, less nasal, more haunting sound on the soprano. There are different types of sopranos and mouthpiece set-ups the lean in different directions. Selmers tend to be more "oboe like" whilst vintage Conns or Martins are darker but have power.

Brandford Marsalis has one of the best soprano sounds ever. He prefers the Neuman TLM170.

I like LDC tube mics and ribbon mics. My go-to soprano mic is the Coles 4038.

If you want a cheezy "fuzak" type sound, just use an AKG 414 or U87

[Yannick]

Is it just me or is there about 20 cm difference in height between the first and second mic ?

I bet the same mic would sound good and very bad if you did that.

With these kind of comparisons you can proove anything

[boojum]

Originally Posted by obostic

You guys have to start checking post dates. LOL!

Oooops! Yeah! Wow. Well, it is still interesting and some may still learn something from this zombie thread.