15th September 2006
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#1 | | Gear Head
Joined: Mar 2006 Location: farmington pa 15437
Posts: 44
Thread Starter  |  Recording a small choir
I will be recording a small choir of 35 to 40 people. I am considering using a pair of Schoeps MK41 in an ORTF configuration and using a DPA 4006 to blend a little low end into the mix. Does this sound like a good choice in micing technique? It will be difficult to position the mics because the choir is in a balcony approximately 23’ above the church sanctuary. I also have a pair of Schoeps MK21s but these seem a bit (dark) to me. If some of you would recommend the MK21s how close to the choir would you place them?
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15th September 2006
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#2 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 38
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This topic is of interest to me as well as I recently had requests to record two church choirs/orchestras. i have large stage booms i was going to use, but your mention of balconies got me thinking of some of the problems i might run into.
i was going to run a four-mic mix as well ORTF and splits to include the cathedral ambience.
looking forward to seeing some pro replies.
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15th September 2006
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,470
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I wouldn't use MK41's to record a choir, personally... I find that the broader patterns (subcardiod and omni) are good for choirs as they help maintain a blend of the ensemble. I have done cardiod pairs in the center with omni outriggers with decent results in the past, but I prefer other pickups. A blumlein pair of ribbon mics can work well, too (I've used the SF-24 with good results), but that is because of the lack of detail in a large airspace with distant micing...
Given that you have MK21's, I'd go for those first... Place them at about 100-110 degrees or so and space about 14-18 inches as your main pair. 4006's are great choir mics and would do well as flanks. If you are worried about brightness and the airspace, you may want the black grids for the 4006s.
Also, for that matter, 35-40 people is really not a very large choir. Depending on how they set up, a simple A-B pair of omnis can work very well.
--Ben
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15th September 2006
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#4 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2006 Location: france
Posts: 75
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I recorded a choir with km184's and was happy with the result. Because I didn't have the possibility to do a soundcheck I choose a XY configuration to be on the save side. Distance to the choir will be key to get a good balance between choir and church reverb.
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15th September 2006
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2002 Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 624
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I would go with the Schoeps 41's (or DPA 4011's) in X/Y in the center with flanking 4006's at the periphery. This is how I do most choral recordings these days. The X/Y pair gives a great center image while the omnis will pick up low end and ambience.
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15th September 2006
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#6 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Newark, Ohio
Posts: 38
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I fell it depends on the room and the sound that the choir gets in the room. In a very live room, I have had great success with a pair of Schoeps 41's in ORTF. The soloists stepped forward a couple of feet for their solos. They loved the results.
In a fairly dead room, I didn't like the 41's, and I used cardiods. I had KM-140s and AT4051s available. 4 mics on the choir - SATB.
Doug
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15th September 2006
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2005 Location: Columbus County, North Carolina
Posts: 2,426
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I second the Mk21s..dont like the 4/41 for choir stuff...
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15th September 2006
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Central Europe
Posts: 4,091
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I third MK21 ... They have an ideal balance between omni and cardioid and almost everything sounds good through them ....
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16th September 2006
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#9 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2006 Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,606
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Fourth the MK21.
Whenever I've tried them, I've always ended up using them. Don't worry about them being "darkish" in comparison to DPA silver grid or Neumann KM183/184/130/140. Others say those are too bright, and that's my experience with choir too.
Have done choirs with just a pair of 183, but with quite some distance, and REALLY in the diffuse field. Very spacious, bright enough. At "normal" distances I prefer MK21.
__________________
Microphones always make me sound louder and better! -- Guitar Girl | |
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17th September 2006
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#10 | | Gear interested
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
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Fifth. I recorded couple of small choirs using MK21 with very good results, inluding the sample used in comparison of Millenia and DAV pres  | |
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17th September 2006
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,137
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I would worry about the LF response of the MK41 as a main pair on a choir. Recently I did a very small (8 person) choir and although I had issues with some of it I was delighted by the LF pickup whilst using the Schoeps MK2 as the main mic. It just gave a depth to the basses that sounded very rich and full. Nothing seems to do it like an omni in this regard (even when the LF of the instrument or singer falls within the flat range of a more directional mic).
having said that I really like a recording I made using an MK4 and MK8 on another small choir as it had a delicate precision that really suited the movement.
I guess it its a full rich sound you want then omnis or subcards might do the trick.
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17th September 2006
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Central Europe
Posts: 4,091
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As I already mentioned somewhere else, I tried a pair of MK41 quite thoroughly and to my ears it sounded a bit strained and tensed - kind of "shotgun", not letting the music having a nice "aura" around ... After that, I personally would not use MK41 for such a purpose ...
MK2 is another great choice ...
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17th September 2006
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#13 | | Gear interested
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia
Posts: 28
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I 6th the 21s. I wouldn't even think about the 41s on choir - you'll get some serious beaming - that one soprano and that one tenor will just stick out like mad.
As for the 21s - try a wide ORTF with a decent amount of distance.
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3rd December 2006
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 1,043
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Has anyone tried the brighter MK21Hs on choir? I wonder how they compare to the MK21.
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6th December 2006
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#15 | | Gear Head
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 33
| Quote: |
This topic is of interest to me as well as I recently had requests to record two church choirs/orchestras. i have large stage booms i was going to use, but your mention of balconies got me thinking of some of the problems i might run into.
| The very same situation I was faced with two months ago. An interesting read .
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6th December 2006
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 2,552
| Is Blumlein an option?
I use Schoeps and just love the 41, but the person who said it's a shotgun is right, though it's a very good one.
If you have access to a stereo Blumlein mic, they are forgiving and very easy to use, capturing stereo image AND ambience in one rig. The AEA R88, Royer SF-12 or SF-24 would all be great choices.
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