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Pair of AT4050 for recording grand Piano?
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Lorenzop
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6th July 2013
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Pair of AT4050 for recording grand Piano?

What do you think? Acceptable "poor mans" solution? I like the at4050 warm tone on vocals and many acoustic sources but have never tried on piano. Maybe they'll smooth out transient detail but is that necessarily a bad thing?
And one could do AB omnis or even M/S combination ...

I'd love to hear if anybody's tried and what result you got!

Thanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
What do you think? Acceptable "poor mans" solution? I like the at4050 warm tone on vocals and many acoustic sources but have never tried on piano. Maybe they'll smooth out transient detail but is that necessarily a bad thing?
And one could do AB omnis or even M/S combination ...

I'd love to hear if anybody's tried and what result you got!

Thanks
I've not tried them on piano either, however, they are really good microphones and should give great results.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
What do you think? Acceptable "poor mans" solution? I like the at4050 warm tone on vocals and many acoustic sources but have never tried on piano. Maybe they'll smooth out transient detail but is that necessarily a bad thing?
And one could do AB omnis or even M/S combination ...

I'd love to hear if anybody's tried and what result you got!

Thanks
What kind of poor man would have a pair of at4050?
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....one poorer than he who has a pair of Neumanns or Gefells ... :D
Yes everything is relative!
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I have heard them on piano a few times. They sound pretty good.
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4050's are what I use on my piano. They are good for piano in a mix but not what I would want for solo or very piano heavy music. Great mics that always work well. It's not going to suck.
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They're great mics.. And should sound pretty decent on piano.

Why not?!
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Hey krs studio... Why not "solo piano" then? What do you use for solo piano based music ?
Thanks.
Ps any clips to hear??
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
Hey krs studio... Why not "solo piano" then? What do you use for solo piano based music ?
Thanks.
Ps any clips to hear??
Neumann is my guess.
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Ok but why... Not just a name, a reason ie slow transients, not natural enough sound, not big enough, too bright... etc etc ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
Ok but why... Not just a name, a reason ie slow transients, not natural enough sound, not big enough, too bright... etc etc ?
Te most popular mics for classical piano are small-diaphragm omnidirectional condensers.

The 4050 a dual-large diaphragm mic, which by its nature has several faults that make it not work so well for classical work. Their off-axis frequency response is not as uniform as a small diaphragm mic, and they cannot reproduce bass frequencies as accurately. The 4050 in particular has a rather "lumpy" response in the high-mid to high frequency range, so its capture in that range will not be accurate to the source, so even if it does still sound good, this makes them less than ideal for the job.

All that said, if it works for you, go for it!
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Here is a recording I done with a pair of 4050. No it's not piano... but you will get the idea.



They were used with my Firepod preamps (very very cheap).

I think the result is good.

If you have unlimited budget, I would go out and rent other mics and try them, but 4050 will do the job.


This video is using the 4050 in omni about 4feet wide AB.
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Well kudos to you my friend that's very nice!!

Why did you chose the 4050s for this?


And may I ask, was there any processing on the track? I'm surprise at how dry / close sounding the guitar is for an AB pair at that distance in such a hall! Dies it have such an intimate dry acoustic?

Anyways that's quite nice maybe purists might complain but I think the 4050s there did a great job.
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For me the 4050's don't have enough low mid beef for solo piano work. SDC works better for some things. . Another fav is a pair of Dragonfly mics by BLUE.
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So what does 4050 excell at? (doesn't have to be classical!)
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not used them on Piano... but they work great on OH drums, acoustic guitar, vocals.. I would be surprised if they did not work very well .. you may want something with more or less of something ... but I think they are a great mic that seems to work well on about anything.

from reading loooong ago in Mix mag ..Roger Nichols thought they were quite good
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Well im thinking of using them in conjunction with omni SDC's.
Either as AB or as a MS or even Blumlein arrangement (for experimentation).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
Well im thinking of using them in conjunction with omni SDC's.
Either as AB or as a MS or even Blumlein arrangement (for experimentation).
I used to use the AT4050 on pop vocal.

BTW I seem to recall that you have Line Audio mics. Both the CM3 and OM1 could be used for piano recording.
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I used to use the AT4050 on pop vocal.

BTW I seem to recall that you have Line Audio mics. Both the CM3 and OM1 could be used for piano recording.
The Faulkner four mic (two omni, two super-card) array would be just right for those LA mics. ;o)
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The 4050 excels at always sounding good, or at least nearly always. I use them every bit as much as my 414's. OH duties, piano, guitar both acoustic and electric, horns, hand drums, bass cab, snare, front of kick, room mic, Hammond/Leslie cab. I often have mics that will out perform on specific items but none better for an all around studio work horse. At least in this price range.
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The 4050's have some grain and haze to them. Will usually sound good, easy to place, never "too much information" but won't necessarily sound genius.

With a high end mic pre they do open up a lot and can have a lot of credibility and honesty to the sound though . . . a very interesting mic. . .

I like high end tube pres with it, Manley, Thermionic etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
The Faulkner four mic (two omni, two super-card) array would be just right for those LA mics. ;o)
I think you meant sub- rather than super-card....but whatever floats the boojum boat :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
Well kudos to you my friend that's very nice!!

Why did you chose the 4050s for this?


And may I ask, was there any processing on the track? I'm surprise at how dry / close sounding the guitar is for an AB pair at that distance in such a hall! Dies it have such an intimate dry acoustic?

Anyways that's quite nice maybe purists might complain but I think the 4050s there did a great job.
No processing at all except a high pass filter to filter out the very low HVAC that you can still hear.

It sounds close because the hall is very big so the early reflections come in quite late, leaving a sense of "dryness" to the track.

I chose the 4050 because that was the only pair of "quality" microphones I had. They did very well for this project, everyone is happy. This was for a classical guitar student.

If I was recording worlds top international players, I would have probably rented a few mics and pres to try out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenkas View Post
If I was recording worlds top international players, I would have probably rented a few mics and pres to try out.
Recently I had such an opportunity. Brian Peters and I were hired to record Menahem Pressler at Indiana U. Didn't know the hall so I planned on being loaded for bear-- mics for the Decca (Schoeps MK2S) D-G (SennTwins and TLM170s), and basic "purist" approaches. 10 mics plus one to hear the artist as he spoke to us.

The winner was the "purist" spaced pair of Schoeps MK2H thru Pueblo pres.

Even the 1 meter stick was a bust! Moral: unless you know the piano (Steinway Hamburg "D"-- a thoroughbred in top condition) and the hall (Auer Hall) one cannot predict the outcome.

Rich
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Great one Rich!!

And Pressler is such a great artist....lucky you! 10mics sounds like ... Gearslutz field day!!

For my "self improvement" course id appreciate if I may ask so wether you have clips of those ten different arrays??? That would be really great!

To my OP:

I just found out the AT4047 MP is a multy pattern mic also.

That raises the question: 4050s or 4047mp's ? Well, what about the AKG 414? Which might fit a Grandpiano better? Any ideas?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare View Post
Recently I had such an opportunity. Brian Peters and I were hired to record Menahem Pressler at Indiana U. Didn't know the hall so I planned on being loaded for bear-- mics for the Decca (Schoeps MK2S) D-G (SennTwins and TLM170s), and basic "purist" approaches. 10 mics plus one to hear the artist as he spoke to us.

The winner was the "purist" spaced pair of Schoeps MK2H thru Pueblo pres.

Even the 1 meter stick was a bust! Moral: unless you know the piano (Steinway Hamburg "D"-- a thoroughbred in top condition) and the hall (Auer Hall) one cannot predict the outcome.

Rich
Hi Rich,

When you say "purist", what were the specs of this setup? A-B out front? Spheres on the mics?
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Originally Posted by Tom McC View Post
I think you meant sub- rather than super-card....but whatever floats the boojum boat :-)
Tom, you are right. I was quite sleepy when I made that post. Thanks for correcting it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Tom, you are right. I was quite sleepy when I made that post. Thanks for correcting it.
Is the cm3 really a subcardioid? I seem to recall someone calling it an open cardioid, whatever that is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya View Post
Hi Rich,

When you say "purist", what were the specs of this setup? A-B out front? Spheres on the mics?
Schoeps CMC62H (no spheres-- none available and we would not have wanted to change the MK2H response). A-B 5ft out with mics at a height to be just below the plane of the lid. Aligned with tone holes #3 and #6.

>>> ALL THE ABOVE WAS ARRIVED AT BY FINE-TUNING WHAT WE HEARD VS WHAT WE WANTED<<<

YMMV--

Rich
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