console shipping ??

[pounce]

maybe you guys have some experience with this.

i have purchased a console for myself and need to get it from pretty far away. i still -might- drive if it saves enough money, but it would be a unpleasant drive and if i am missing work to do this, i am not saving money really.

the seller of the used board i'm getting doesn't seem to know much about shipping a console. so, how do you do it? sure, as a buyer i will have to pay for shipping. but it may be in my interest to investigate which carriers you guys may have used. or what precautions you take to ensure the thing still looks like the picture when it gets here

please chime in if you have experience with shipping consoles. thanks

[Meriphew]

If I were you I would just pick it up myself if that's possible. Then you know it will be handled with TLC instead of some goons bouncing it around in the back of a truck.

[guittarzzan]

I'll toss a little advice on this one...not because I have a 4 ton ssl in my living room, but because I'm a UPS driver and musician/recording goofball.
One word...padding, padding, padding. If you dropped it from 5 ft to a concrete floor would it damage it?? If it would, then it needs more padding.
Another thing is that it should be sealed air tight in plastic, not some thin stuff that will break easily. Winter time is notorious for letting us know which trailers developed leaks over the summer and we get some 45 ft trailers in with a small lake up in the nose...I wouldn't want my mixer sitting in that.
If it's a high value item ($5000) or more, through UPS it gets a lot of special handling to make sure it doesn't get damaged. Even if you only paid $4000 for it, if you insured it for 5k, you would be wise because of the extra care taken.
If your mixer is one of the beastly variety, it may be too big for UPS.
I would go ups, fed x fed ex ground, but I'd be very cautious about what other carriers you use. I've seen a lot of these smaller shippers just tossing boxes off the back of their semi...bad news.

...last thought.....send it one or two day air if you can. The less time in transit, the less abuse it will take.

I hope that gives you some good info. No one likes a broken new toy.

steve

[denial]

Originally posted by guittarzzan
Even if you only paid $4000 for it, if you insured it for 5k...
steve

I know your trying to be helpful guittarzzan and thanks for the tips but I have a nagging question regarding freight insurance that you might be able to answer. No matter how I try to justify it, the issue bugs the hell out of me:

Why is it that the sender has to pay any insurance at all? Isn't the sender paying for a service, making the shipper responsible for delivery, handling and everything in between. It seems to me that we're paying for the shippers carelessness.

It's like having a kid in childcare and paying an insurance fee to cover their negligance?

If insurance is necessary then they can't be too sure of the service they provide and that seems to scream volumes. Personally I think it's the scam of the century but I could be wrong. Lawyers seemed to have removed all responsibility from society?

[pounce]

denial - good point

yes, ups wasn't something i considered at all. yes, it costs way over 5k used and is too big for ups. a trucking company at minimum. this is a large format console on it's own stand. however, it's a bit lighter than others in this catagory, which may help

[pramrod]

Try SOUND MOVES- it's the super high end shizzle. they will not drop your console.

http://www.inspiredminds.com/soundmoves/home.asp

pricey no doubt but, anything is better than supporting that moronic "brown" ad campaign...

pramrod

[guittarzzan]

denial........I do understand what you're saying and in many ways I agree with you. Why should we have to pay for insurance when it shouldn't get damaged to begin with. It's like paying twice. Although, in principal, I agree with you, in reality, everyone would lose if it were any other way. Supposedly, our system is about the best there is for gettting stuff from a to b and, from working in the hub for 11 years before driving, I saw on a daily basis, packages being crushed from having too much volume on a conveyor belt at a time. A belt system designed in the 70's to handle 1800 packages an hour was now carrying between 2500 and 4000. It's not perfect by a long shot, but for a shipper that can go virtually anywhere in the world with your package, it's the best out there. Another reason for it is that many of the damages we have are because they weren't packed according to our guidlines to begin with...people don't do their research...they think the package get's set on a pillow and driven to point b.
To reduce belt flows to where there would be rarely a damage would require billions of dollars in new facilites. That would mean shipping rates would have to just about double. Sure you wouldn't have to buy insurance, but you'd end up paying more...at least until UPS went bankrupt and everyone switched to another carrier with lower rates, but who's system was even worse than UpS's.
I have to pay the exact same rates as you and it bugs me to have to insure a package that shouldn't get damaged to begin with, but it's a fact of life. Why should we have to carry uninsured motorist insurance when it shouldn't be our responsibility? It's just one of those things.
At the end of our strike a few years back, I got a lot of comments from customers who went to fed ex or airborne and had really bad experiences with their service. It does suprise me at times, but for now, I guess it's the best there is.

cheers,
Steve

[Jay Kahrs]

Read this.


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mo...ary.com&rnum=1


Best thing on moving a console I've ever seen. I've moved my desk a few times and at this point it's a piece of cake.

How big is your new desk?

[Jay Kahrs]

And here's the whole thing pasted over from google.

Rec.audio.pro archives and Fletcher? Need I say more?

CP DRIVERE wrote:
>
> Situation: Moving 11 foot console from location to my studio by means of 15
> foot box truck. Console weighs aprox. 500-600 lbs. No lift gate on truck...just
> a pull out ramp.
>
> Any suggestions on preping, packing, loading, securing for what will be a 600
> mile ride? Wish to arrive with the console in one working piece:>


Depends on the desk, the frame, whether they're all in one strips or actual modules. 500-600 lbs isn't that much weight for an 11' long desk...so chances are the frame isn't as well reinforced as say an old Neve or API. There's a big difference in frame construction from like the 80's out than from prior to the '80's...so pulling the modules can actually weaken the structure of the desk. Without the make and model, it's all conjecture bullshit.

In that case, especially if they're 'all in one' strips, you're going to
want to leave the modules *in* the desk as the face plates of the
modules are part of the structure of the desk. Many of the less
expensive desks have 'flex' to the frame. Without the modules in the desk, you greatly increase the chances for bending the frame, or cracking a mother board.

With things like the old Neves, you can ship those "modules in" as
well...but *everything* better be tightened down *very* well, if one module pops loose, you'll end up with a bunch of broken module edge connectors...they're only a pain in the ass if the female on the back of the module breaks, they're a ****ing nightmare if the male on the desk breaks. Doesn't sound like your problem here...I digress.

OK...moving a desk with a ramp instead of a lift gate...first, determine if the frame is reinforced by the modules [sounds like yours is]. Second...before you move the desk from where it is...block one end, remove the leg on that side. Now, with 4 guys [preferable big strong men with rippling pec's], have them hold up the other side of the desk and take the other leg off. You can ship it "on legs"...but if you do that, make sure you support the center of the desk, perhaps adding support every 1/3 of the desk...the idea here is that you don't want the frame to bend/flex.

To remove the legs...if you have 6-8 of these burly hunks...remove the blocks from the other end, and lower it onto two 4 wheel dolly's [I'm going to assume that a pallette and pallette jack aren't in your grasp]. Now, depending on what floor the desk is on...you may have to run it on top of the 'freight elevator', or worse on top of the 'passenger elevator'. Best way to accomplish this is a hundred or two flipped to the 'super' of the building...if you've never run an elevator like this...don't try it without the "super". Getting the doors to open on an elevator when the car is on the floor beneath takes a little trick that I ain't telling you.

So...now you're on the main floor [either you were there to begin with, and the elevator thing was moot, or you're down there now and you just didn't consider the elevator logistics]...back the truck up to the front door. If Allah is on your side, you're going to have the door clearance to A) get the desk out 'flat', B) be able to run the ramp into the front door.

Chances are, Allah will be doing something else and not worried about your problem. In which case, having a couple of extra dollies around [along with the rippling/burly men] will come in handy. Tip the desk back onto two more dollies, and run it up the ramp faders to in the air, many people watching that it doesn't tip, going *very* slowly and methodically, and only *one* person in charge!! If it's off the ground and into the truck...one on the ramp pulling, on behind pushing, and every one else *off the ramp* steadying the sides.

If it's all on one level [like with a loading dock]...you're livin'...if
you're coming off the ground, depending on what kind of michegas you had to go through to get it out of the building...you might be best off dropping the legs in the truck[manpower/temperature permitting...guess
what, when you get it out of the building where it is...the guys from the studio will more than likely be off like a prom dress leaving you to your own devices...hired hands are a good thing]. Don't cut corners...better to hire one or two guys too many and not need them, then to hire one or two guys to few and be bumming.

Now, you have it in the truck...you still have options...oh, and you
damn well better have some rachit straps as well. If the desk has a solid 'belly pan', then I recommend putting the meter bridge up against the side of the truck, and the belly on the floor. Block it in with some 2"x 4"s [you did remember your screw gun and 4" 'deck screws', right?], having made sure that you ran the straps under the desk *before* you put the desk in it's final resting place.

If you decide the belly pan isn't up to the task...then put the belly
pan to the wall of the truck [I recommend driver's side, but it could
just be superstition] and strap it there. If the meter bridge is
removable, do it...if not, then don't.

Either way...make sure that it rides on some 'packing blankets'...and that you have an "air ride" truck. At 600 lbs, in a 15' truck...as far as the truck's suspension knows, you're riding empty, and the ****er is going to bounce like a ball...it'll be good on gas too, but 'air ride' will save you quite a bit of extra bouncing along the way home.

If you have access to road cases, case the Power Supplies etc. and strap them to the opposite wall of the truck, as well as the console legs [you're gonna be pissed if you forget them], as well as any cabling etc.

You really want to try to balance the load on the truck as much as
possible, and keep as much weight as possible up to the front of the box...again, another reason to get an air ride truck as there is going to be damn little weight over the rear axle.

Before you leave...things to make sure you have: INSURANCE!!!!!!! and a driving partner. 600 miles is a fair sized ride...chances are you're going to want to stop at least to pee and get fuel. A second driver will mean you can really dead haul it...if you have to stop...well lit truck stop, don't get out of the truck.

Check with your insurance company, but most insurance riders for this kind of haul have a little clause where if the truck is left unattended, it's uninsured. If your truck gets stolen while you're peeing...hit yourself in the head as hard as you can [draw blood], call the cops...recall all the "highjacking" scenes from 'Goodfellas" while you're waiting for the police, file a report and say you were with the truck and took a beatin'...get the picture?

With a driving partner...pee one at a time will ya, you can look at each other's Johnson's later. Same with eating...one buys, one flys...the other guy stays with the truck. If you feel the absolute spiritual need to go into a roadside diner...park the truck where you can see it, and don't take your damned eyes off it while you're eating. Believe it or not..."the club" [yeah that dumb **** thing from late night TV] is an *excellent* theft deterent device!!

When you get it where you're going, repeat the load out process in reverse. If it's going in your basement, make sure you know how it's going to get in there *before* you move it. Make sure that you have enough burly men with rippling muscles so nobody drops the damn thing. If there are stairs, think of how the Hebrew slaves moved the stones to build the pyramids...same crap, less weight, but they had to get them up the side of those things somehow...chances are they couldn't just make a
call and hire a crane...besides, gravity is on your side if it's in the
basement. Turns may not be on your side [another reason to see if the meter bridge is removable].

Slow and methodical...slow and methodical...slowly and methodically. If you're in a hurry, you're going to screw yourself. Main things: don't force anything, no heros [soemone gettig hurt trying to lift something they can't just isn't in your best interest...capise]; and don't move an inch without everybody involved in the process all knowing what's going
to happen before it does. There's a reason why everybody repeats things in the military...so everybody's on the same page.

Good luck.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio

[pounce]

wll, as far as consoles go, it's modest. it's under 7 foot long and under 300 pounds. it has it's own legs.

i'm an IATSE member and have moved every hernia creating ****ing heavy live board you can think of (boy, a fully loaded cadac is a rough one). fortunately, my friends are also stagehands and i have a great resource of a buddy network so long as i'm buying the beer. i can easily get a few for any unloading here locally.

for me it's all about whether or not i can get a company to get it to me. i might not be able to take the time off of work to get it as it's rather far away and a few days would be needed. sure, i'd prefer to be with it, but it might not be practical.

[Jay Kahrs]

Two thoughts.

Get the book out and call some piano movers. Some of them have actually moved consoles before and they're used to getting large delicate things from point A to point B.

Second, most of the bigger moving firms will have a division that handles electronics. They're really used to moving offices that are filled with copiers and stuff but I hired one to move my MCI and console during one of my moves. It kinda sucked because I had to oversee the entire move just to make sure they didn't do anything dumb like try to lay the deck on it's side or use the "handles on top" (aka, tape guides and capstan) to move it. The firm I used also handled my friends move and they managed to dent his APR-24 2" deck. Mine went off without a hitch, just a few light scuffs.

Honestly, if it ain't that far away I'd bite the bullet and take the time off work. Maybe fly out there and rent the truck one way.

BTW, no beer until AFTER the console is off and in place.

[pounce]

how the hell did i get this lucky? one of my stagehand freinds is going to texas next week and i will give him the money i was going to give the trucking company. this is perfect. he and i handle consoles all the time. solves the problem for me.

[entropy]

Pounce

What console did you end up getting?

[pounce]

got a d&r orion. had enough inputs/features, the right price, an excellent reputation for being a clean console. i need to track and mix with the same board, and i plan on summing daw stems from the actual board. therefore the above characteristics were great. its a little bigger than what i've been using, so it will feel like i have some breathing room channelwise. should be a good thing.

[Bastiaan]

http://www.dnrsports.com/miva/mercha...de=longgunsweb

Is that what you got???

D&R makes nice sturdy stuff. I live in the netherlands and worked with D&R consoles at the local radiostations here, and they just ROCK!

[Bastiaan]

ehe