DAV BG1 vs True Systems P-Solo

[skopje]

I have just had a DAV BG1 on trial for a week. I can understand why people like it, it is a quality pice of kit, but i'm finding it far too bright. I need a pre for primarily recording acoustic guitars.

The only other Pre in my price range that i have heard an audio example of that i like is the True systems P-Solo.

The only thing that concerns me is it's stated spec of +31db output. The DAV is stated as +23 in the sound on sound review.

I am using an EMU 1212M card which is stated as +4.

Will using a preamp with a +31db output work with my card?

stephen

[Jim Williams]

That BG-1 has + - 20 volt supplies, it should be able to dump +28 dbu on outputs.
Too brite??? Other users before mods report it's a bit dark on transients. I suggest putting a 8 pin dip socket in it and auditioning the that1510 or the very smooth AD SSM2019 chips, all pin compatible.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[T.RayBullard]

there is nothing bright about that pre at all..I suggest looking at your mic...

[ISedlacek]

You can use many adjectives for DAV, you may like it, you may not, but definitely it is NOT bright ... for sure ... Even Millennia is much brighter than DAV. So you should look rather at your mics and/or AD ... the source of brightness is most probably there ...

[Roland]

Originally Posted by skopje

I have just had a DAV BG1 on trial for a week. I can understand why people like it, it is a quality pice of kit, but i'm finding it far too bright. I need a pre for primarily recording acoustic guitars.

The only other Pre in my price range that i have heard an audio example of that i like is the True systems P-Solo.

The only thing that concerns me is it's stated spec of +31db output. The DAV is stated as +23 in the sound on sound review.

I am using an EMU 1212M card which is stated as +4.

Will using a preamp with a +31db output work with my card?

stephen

There will be no problem with using the DAV with your card, the +4 that you are refering to of your card is the fact it is designed for pro levels, the mic amps even with a +31db output could have a -10db out on them it, its not refering to the same thing.

Regards


Roland

[rwhitney]

As Roland pointed out, +4 (as opposed to -10) refers to a manufacturers standard around which a range of voltages will work optimally with a device, in this case the commonly considered "professional" standard. So, that's okay for your purposes.

Another factor to consider is the overall gain of the preamp--how much it can amplify a microphone's output. The True (I've been using the Precision 8 for several years) can supply about 64dB of gain (if I remember correctly), and the DAV-1 (which I haven't used) I think provides only somewhere around 56dB (totally from memory, so check this out for yourself). Preamps with so little gain, such as the DAV-1, may, depending on mic, source, and placement, introduce excessive noise when recording quiet sounds, or when using ribbon microphones.

In other words, the True should work fine, maybe better than the DAV-1 in some cases, because of it's higher gain structure relative to input. Examples of the DAV-1 I've heard posted on these forums have not seemed overly bright to me, but rather smooth and moderately thick (full in the midrange). What microphones are you using with it?

[Plush]

DAV is never a bright sound and 56dB of gain is not too low, even for R84 ribbon.

Your tonal problem lies elsewhere---probably with the source or with a Chinese mic.

Stick with the DAV. Enjoy the music, enjoy the sound.

[sonare]

I own a Precision 8 and BG#2 and have used an SF12 with both with no problems. This is on choral, not guitar cabs. The BG has enough gain to satisfy!

In deciding which of the 2 to use, the BG wins every time. The Precision 8 is very good, but I prefer the BG.

Rich

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by rwhitney

Preamps with so little gain, such as the DAV-1, may, depending on mic, source, and placement, introduce excessive noise when recording quiet sounds, or when using ribbon microphones.

even at max gain, the DAV is dead quiet....

you can get the BG-1 modified for 66db of gain, though I have found the standard 59 of gain to be fine!Even with ribbons!


so destroy your mics, destroy your source, and start all over..bright AINT from the pre.

[skopje]

I am using an ADK A51 TC and a neumann TLM 103..... My other preamp that i have been using for the past 7 years and still have is a joe meek VC1.

I was doing some more vocals tonight and i must admit i am loving it on vocals but personally find it slightly bright for acoustic guitar, which is the reason that i got it.

In an ideal world i'd love to keep the DAV for vocals and get another unit for the acoustic guitar, but i have exceeded my budget so much even with the DAV

I'm still struggling with the levels leaving the unit. Tonight i was doing some fairly soft vocals and there was so much level leaving the DAV that the gain was only on the first notch at 3db. It was still really loud hitting cubase LE.

Is it okay to turn down the inputs of the EMU soundcard or do you lose quality in the A-D conversion

stephen

[jackinthebox]

Originally Posted by skopje

I am using an ADK A51 TC and a neumann TLM 103..... My other preamp that i have been using for the past 7 years and still have is a joe meek VC1.

I was doing some more vocals tonight and i must admit i am loving it on vocals but personally find it slightly bright for acoustic guitar, which is the reason that i got it.

In an ideal world i'd love to keep the DAV for vocals and get another unit for the acoustic guitar, but i have exceeded my budget so much even with the DAV

I'm still struggling with the levels leaving the unit. Tonight i was doing some fairly soft vocals and there was so much level leaving the DAV that the gain was only on the first notch at 3db. It was still really loud hitting cubase LE.

Is it okay to turn down the inputs of the EMU soundcard or do you lose quality in the A-D conversion

stephen

you should use the line inputs on your soundcard as the output from the dav is at line level (+4db professional standard domestic/consumer gear is -10 or -20).
Both your mics are pretty bright so try moving the mic closer to the sound hole for more bottom end, and/or get closer for more proximity effect.
Hope this helps. I have a DAV BG1 and i find it too be pretty fat sounding and it's transient response is actually quite incredible for acoustic guitars. Your joe meek might have appeared duller but it was probably just less detailed IMO.
I imagine you must have plugged into the mic input on your interface cos you can't turn down a line input!thumbsup

[Albert]

I also would not use the word "bright" to describe my DAV BG-1. The brightness must be caused by something else, probably the mic.

[PHILANDDON]

May I suggest that it's your Neuman TLM 103 that's too bright. That has to be one of the brightest, most annoying sounding mics I've ever heard................

[skopje]

Thanks very much for all the advice and information, i'll keep plugging away at it, especially the mic placemenet

cheers
Stephen

[Jeraz]

I used to have an 1820M (I now use an RME FF800). Have you opened up PatchMix DSP and made sure that your 1212 is set to +4 on both input and output, and not -10??? You do this by opening up Patchmix, and clicking the setting button just above the "TV" window.

Be aware that ,even at +4 on the E-MU, I think that the maximum input is 20dBu. Good luck.

Best,

Mark

[skopje]

Cheers, I'll Look into that. I have recently been changing settings on the EMU patchmix i'll double check everything...

Thea DAV is fantastic, people claiming that i had something incorrect in my signal chain were correct. I did all my mic placements using a new pair of headphones (HD600s) and i really haven't gotten used to them yet.

i did some more test recordings today using my monitors to guide me, and the DAV is a fabulous piece of kit, and i'm keeping it

Thanks again for all the input

stephen

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by skopje

I am using an ADK A51 TC and a neumann TLM 103..... My other preamp that i have been using for the past 7 years and still have is a joe meek VC1.

I was doing some more vocals tonight and i must admit i am loving it on vocals but personally find it slightly bright for acoustic guitar, which is the reason that i got it.

In an ideal world i'd love to keep the DAV for vocals and get another unit for the acoustic guitar, but i have exceeded my budget so much even with the DAV

I'm still struggling with the levels leaving the unit. Tonight i was doing some fairly soft vocals and there was so much level leaving the DAV that the gain was only on the first notch at 3db. It was still really loud hitting cubase LE.

Is it okay to turn down the inputs of the EMU soundcard or do you lose quality in the A-D conversion

stephen

Both the ADK TC and Neumann TLM103 have HF bumps, so that might be causing the extra brightness on your acoustic guitar tracks. Placement too is a big factor, as are the instrument, strings used, etc.

[imlikeajungle]

Just had another question on the BG1... A lot of people seem to be using it primarily to record OHs, acoustic guitars & vox. Does it work just as well with bass & electric (distorted) guitars?

[salomonander]

hi


i have only limited experience with the DAV (my engineer used in a session once - didn't work on the source). but, the reason we dismissed it sounds similar to your problems. i would not say that the preamp is bright at all. it was just that the transient response sounded very un-natural to us. when listening to the shootouts (there were quiet a few on this board) i heared that same characterisitc and never understood why people raved about this preamp.
but - that's maybe just me. still - i'd never use that preamp on plucked instruments.
any great alternatice?...well i'm not an engineers, but right now i'm using two siemens v276 - which are great on acoustic guitar (using neumann km84) and well cheap if you look for them.

best regards
jakob

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by imlikeajungle

Just had another question on the BG1... A lot of people seem to be using it primarily to record OHs, acoustic guitars & vox. Does it work just as well with bass & electric (distorted) guitars?

David Gilmour used DAV for his world tour..48 Channels covering all of his instruments. (this is the reason the 8ch exists, the 8ch was designed for Gilmour, then afterwards was sold to the public) It sounds great on anything. Most I know use it for classical recording, but seems like more and more rock guys are getting them.

http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm there are some DAV samples...

Pay no attention to those that have little experience with the unit.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by salomonander

...well i'm not an engineers (sic). . .
best regards
jakob

unh-huh

[imlikeajungle]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

...

Thanks for that link T.Ray!

[zilver]

Originally Posted by Plush

unh-huh

Don't be so arrogant.
Technicians are not the only ones who can listen.

Hans

[Plush]

I'm not a "technician," I'm a Tonmeister.

We call the tune.

[zilver]

Originally Posted by Plush

I'm not a "technician," I'm a Tonmeister.

We call the tune.

Yes, and when i was working as a technician in Germany they also called me Tonmeister but that didn't make me better or worse.

Hans

[Plush]

I may not be good, but I AM slow!

I'm a DAV electronics Broadhurst Gardens series acolyte.
That makes me holy.

[zilver]

OK.
Well, good luck with your holy mission !

[Bill Lorentzen]

Are there any retailers offering it Google did not find any), and for how much approximately?

[Plush]

Please buy direct from http://www.davelectronics.com

I believe that the BG #1 is around $710 including FedEx shipping to you.
This does not include local taxes and when we buy in the US, we get a bill from FedEx for an additional $ 60.00.

worth every penny!
The DAV electronics Broadhurst Gardens range of mic amps are the best mic amps in the world.

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Plush

Please buy direct from http://www.davelectronics.com

I believe that the BG #1 is around $710 including FedEx shipping to you.
This does not include local taxes and when we buy in the US, we get a bill from FedEx for an additional $ 60.00.

worth every penny!
The DAV electronics Broadhurst Gardens range of mic amps are the best mic amps in the world.