Micing and Mic for a Stradivarius!!

[mas]

And to further understand the significant differences in sound between those old instruments, one should keep in mind that they hardly are in original condition anymore. The original necks were removed and replaced with thinner "modern" necks (the original baroque style necks were way different and not suitable for the more recent playing technique).
And of course those instruments were repaired numerous times during the last several hundred years. It´s rarely that apparent from the outside because mostly done by very skilled masters. But sometimes the original top wood has been reduced to ridiculous thickness and been replaced on the inside.
So the mere name of the original maker or the price says nothing about how a given instrument really sounds. Therefore it would not be very professional to recommend a specific mic for it without hearing it and the context it´s used in.
And don´t forget the bow - it also makes a difference!

[-Noodles-]

I really tried to read and understand your post, but the spelling and way you set it out was far too hard to understand fluently.

I hope all goes well with the project though.

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Paganini owned six Antonio Stradivarius violins in addition to a viola and a cello.
Other (not all) instruments in his posession at his death
Guarneri del Gesu - "Il Canone"
Guarneri, Giuseppe (filius Andrea)
Bergonzi, Carlo
Rogeri, Pietro Giacomo
Goffriller, Matteo
Cappa, Gioffredo
Amati, Nicolò
Amati, Antonio & Girolamo
da Salò, Gasparo di Bertolotti

Thanks for the correction.

Anecdotally, when I hear about violinists playing Paganini's violin, it has always been the Guarneri. Perhaps it was his main ax or the one most associated with him and the famous violinists who subsequently used it?

FWIW.

[Jake Dempsey]

Originally Posted by kats

I would try a Royer 122V Tubed Ribbon mic.

I haven't used it, nor have I recorded a Strad - but I just stayed at a Quest Inn

Sounds like the perfect choice.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt

Thanks for the correction.

Anecdotally, when I hear about violinists playing Paganini's violin, it has always been the Guarneri. Perhaps it was his main ax or the one most associated with him and the famous violinists who subsequently used it?

FWIW.

The Del Gesu was bought relatively early in his career (1799) the other Guerneri was aquired even earlier (1795), but it is a guiseppe and as such relatively cheap and unremarkable ($500 000 ish)

here is a quote on the Del Gesu:

The Paganini violin, known as Il Cannone (the Canon), because of the power and sonorous quality of its tone, was of all the instruments owned by Nicolo Paganini his favorite. Made by the renowned Cremona violin maker Guarneri (known as del Gesu) and considered one of his masterpieces, the violin has distinct features that set it apart from modern instruments, including a slightly shorter and thicker sound box, and a markedly curved neck. Its tone is distinctly bright, yet full. The violin has survived intact and whole and belongs to Genoa, a gift made in1837 by Paganini to his native city. The violin is played monthly in Genoa to preserve it in best condition and on special occasions. Il Cannone was last seen in New York as part of an exhibition devoted to Guarneri and his atelier at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1994.Because of the instrument's priceless value a security official from Genoa will accompany the violin to New York and an American guard will escort the instrument to the Banca ****onale del Lavoro where it be remain until the performance.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by Thebassist

Regardless of make or year, instruments vary HUGELY from fiddle to fiddle.

Personally... I'd take this guys advice.

He calls a violin a fiddle.

Not being a smartalec either. Dead serious.

SM.

[soupking]

If you're planning on using the violin as a stand out instrument, I recommend the BK-5. I've had some good luck with that. It's an old school RCA ribbon mic, but it's durable.

My other guess would be a Cascade Fathead ribbon. They give the Royer a run for it's money and only cost like $150.

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

The Del Gesu was bought relatively early in his career (1799) the other Guerneri was aquired even earlier (1795), but it is a guiseppe and as such relatively cheap and unremarkable ($500 000 ish).

I recall Bob Mcduffie payed a lot for a Guernari played by Paganini; however, I think the "Ysaye" Guernari is considered an even better instrument (the best?) among those in circulation.

[MIKEHARRIS]

I'm surprised one would consider touring with a Strad...ya figure by the time the artist got to that point in his career...he'd have his micing down.

BTW..i was astonished a few years ago to see, in a collection of "music boxes"...a Orchestrion (sp?) containg 5 Stradivarius...a very large contraption ....sorta like an early jukebox with real instruments

[Drawmer69]

I have only one KM53, but I think two of them would be great for this instrument. They can catch the spirit of it.

[Thebassist]

Slipperman.

I sh*t you not. I've heard Edgar Meyer refer to Joshua Bell as a "fiddle player."

My own two ears.

F the pretension. If you can play a jig on it, I don't care which dead Italian guy carved it.

It's a fiddle.





Oh yeah one exception to tonal variation in the violin family- plywood boxes.

They all sound consistently like poo.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by Thebassist

Slipperman.

I sh*t you not. I've heard Edgar Meyer refer to Joshua Bell as a "fiddle player."

My own two ears.

F the pretension. If you can play a jig on it, I don't care which dead Italian guy carved it.

It's a fiddle.





Oh yeah one exception to tonal variation in the violin family- plywood boxes.

They all sound consistently like poo.

Preaching to the choir.

It's a long story... but suffice to say, the advice, which came from my "Uncle" Kevin Cosgrove(who was actually my father's 1st cousin) was... "don't trust anybody with a violin who doesn't call it a fiddle".

He was somebody who would know.

Best regards,

SM.

[ISedlacek]

No, you cannot call a nice, serious violin "fiddle". And if you call my violin "fiddle", I will not play for you ...

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by Thebassist

Slipperman.

I sh*t you not. I've heard Edgar Meyer refer to Joshua Bell as a "fiddle player."

My own two ears.

F the pretension.

Actually, that's not quite correct (the part about the pretension isn't correct. the part about Josh calling his violin a fiddle - that's correct).

The top violinists refer to their violins as fiddles. It's its own type of pretension. "My fiddle": a kind of disingenuous humility in referring to a 3 million dollar piece of wood.

Perhaps it makes them more comfortable with their instruments. After all, they play them every day, all the time. Or perhaps it's part clubbiness, the club of top violinists who share this idiosyncrasy.

But there is a wierd pretentiousness about it. It's a sign that the violin they're using is sooooo valuable that it's become a fiddle again.

[klaukholm]

Hm, we get a regular entourage of strads through here and not once have I heard anyone refer to it that way.
Pretty much every one I know refer to their own instrument by the last name of the maker. Hill, Forster, Guadagnini. When you own an instrument like that there is a great deal of respect for the particular instruments and their history that is difficult to explain.

[Mrs Bloke]

Hi there. I just visted my medium who regularly channels my late husband (that's sound bloke). I had read about your predicament and asked him if he had any tips for a young bloke like yourself.

Here's his reply young man. "if you have to ask what mic to use on a fiddle, how the f**K are you going to know where to place it. You may as well stick it up the fiddle players date for all you know about the subject - just get someone who knows what they're doing to do the gig!"

He's a little opinionated and sometimes gruff. I'd take it with a pinch of salt if I were you. I think you should just use the biggest, fanciest looking Rode microphone with the longest model number, I'm sure that it will sound nice.

[chrisgraff]

Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt

Actually, that's not quite correct (the part about the pretension isn't correct. the part about Josh calling his violin a fiddle - that's correct).

The top violinists refer to their violins as fiddles. It's its own type of pretension. "My fiddle": a kind of disingenuous humility in referring to a 3 million dollar piece of wood.

Not to mention, most of 'em have two F-holes.

[MattiMattMatt]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Hm, we get a regular entourage of strads through here and not once have I heard anyone refer to it that way.
Pretty much every one I know refer to their own instrument by the last name of the maker. Hill, Forster, Guadagnini. When you own an instrument like that there is a great deal of respect for the particular instruments and their history that is difficult to explain.

The word I was looking for was "affectation," really, more than pretentiousness. I think it's an affection that the top violinists to refer to their violins as fiddles.

Never:

"I'm going to pick up my Strad and I'll meet you at XX Hall"

Rather:

"I'm going to pick up my fiddle and I'll meet you at XX hall."

"I'm having my fiddle cleaned at Jacques Francais"

Etc.

FWIW.

[Thebassist]

It's really hilarious. My bass costs a bit more than my car. It's the best footrest I've ever bought... People really need to stop taking things so seriously, y'all. This is music. It's suposed to be fun. At the end of the day, it's just a piece of wood, no matter which cat made it or when.

For what it's worth, my old teacher had an instrument made before Chris Columbus was born. Despite the old Italian instrument's subtlety, his 20th century instrument had far more power, projection, and presence. Guess which one he used to lead the section of one of the world's greatest orchestras?

One more yarn. A cellist I knew in high school had an Amati. Her dad traded his 70's 5k box for the Amati, and the old man who had it said, "since it's so old, I'll give you some money too if you let me have your nice new instrument..."

[jglamar]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

We just recorded a Strad two weeks ago. This is one of the mellower Strads.
M150 main mics and a M149 spot.
M150's went through a Millennia and the M149 through a Neve.
DPA 4003 surround mics in the back
Prism AD
This was in a full size concerthall, ca 2000 seats.
Everyone involved were happy with the results.

kjetil

Was this for solo violin, or with orchestra? Just curious. I remember working on a Chicago SO recording with Perlman, and we had three channels of him alone - I thought that was kind of extreme (he does like himself very forward in the mix). My normal approach with solo violin in front of an orchestra is to just hang a 4003 with bullet nose over them. The main stereo pair for the orchestra still serves as most of the soloist's sound, and the 4003 gives a little focus without sounding shallow or pointy.