Ideas for a low-budget location sound (for film) setup?

Josh Donnelly · 20th August 2006

Good afternoon, everybody. I'm going to be doing some location dialog recording for a short film, and I need pointers on a mic setup. The majority of the film is being shot inside an empty concrete fort on an island in Washington, and involves a bit of screaming. This is the first time that I've done anything like this, so I'm sorry if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I've been looking at this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation Does that seem ok to get me started? I have absolutely no money for a recorder, so I think I'll just try to find someplace in Seattle that can rent me one of the nice Sound Devices boxes (again, recommendations welcome).

This is really exciting, but I hate not really knowing what I'm looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

dolo72 · 20th August 2006

Have you ever recorded sound for film before or assisted or been a runner on a film while watching the sound recordist and boom op/s ?

I think in direct answer to the package proposed is that you are better off hiring all the kit you need. You will be able to ask the kit hire people questions if something goes wrong.

Is it to be shot on video or on film, with or without video assist and what are the dialogue scenes like i.e. loads of people talking at once or mainly two person or one person? Also lastly do you have a boom op or is it a one man band type situation?

Junkie · 20th August 2006

obvious choices would be shotgun mic's, room mic's, lavlier/butterfly (small in-clothing) mic's. often people overdub the scene with script back in the studio, a good IR (impulse response) of the room you filmed in or decent reverb unit is needed to emulate the room ambience ofcourse

pkautzsch · 20th August 2006

Lo-Budget and film sound are two things that won't go very well together. Well, actually, lo-budget is relative, and even a small Sound Devices recorder can be considered lo-budget when compared to the BIG stuff.
As to the mics: Inside, probably super-cardioids will work better than shotguns. Schoeps CCM-41 is very small and lightweight, and has the usual high quality. Shotguns would be Sennheiser MKH416 or MKH60. So these are what you should ask for at the rental facility.
On location, sound is usually not the most important thing, and the last thing a film crew needs is a sound guy hanging around the shot all the time installing mics. Location sound often is to make the best of a situation that actually isn't good at all. You're best off with just a boom mic to start with. In 97% of all cases this is sufficient - other 3% include cars, public transport like planes, trains..., underwater shots, and very wide shots, as well as lots of lights where the shadow of the boom will always be in the frame.

Jim vanBergen · 21st August 2006

Without sounding snobbish, in my opinion you want to stay away from A-T mics. The Sennheiser 416 and Schoeps MK41 are the INDUSTRY STANDARDS, for a reason.

I did production sound on several low budget indies early in my career to get the film sound design and post mix jobs, and learned a LOT about it. I learned my Audio Technica shotguns did not improve with good preamps, and that DAT preamps suck in general. I learned about timecode, slates, and getting great room tone and location effect tracks.

I also learned a LOT of about boom miking techniques, cutting down reflections using sound blankets, and how sound is not important- until you did not get the take perfectly.

I think renting a recordist's kit is the best idea, and finding a mentor you can discuss all the elements of film location recording is imperative.

Good luck!

celticrogues · 21st August 2006

If you are on location see if there is a place you can hide some small lav mics in the set (not on the actors). There are usually places where you can hide a small mic where it will not be visible to the camera but it will pick up ambience better than a shotgun copuld in some instances. Good luck!

-Mike

jjb · 28th September 2009

If you're shooting inside (and especially in a concrete bunker like any of the coastal forts down there around Whidbey Island) you're probably better off with a Hypercardioid, and you're going to have to hang up some sound blankets and such to try and cut out as much of that reverb as possible to get clean dialog. I haven't been down to Ft. Casey in a few years now, but I remember the crazy reverb.

Remember that your only job is to record good dialog. Ambience (beyond room tone) can be recorded at another time if it's needed, trying to record it with a film crew hard at work isn't going to give you a good result.

I'll 2nd/3rd/Nth renting the kit. The location you're working with is going to be pretty difficult for sound, so getting your hands on some better gear might give you a little extra edge.

You want to be in as good a condition physically as you can be before swinging the boom around for 12+ hours. If you've never boomed before, be ready for some sore shoulders and arms!

Google around for boom operator technique and you'll probably find some decent pointers.

20th August 2006	#1
Josh Donnelly Gear interested Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 12 Thread Starter	Ideas for a low-budget location sound (for film) setup? Good afternoon, everybody. I'm going to be doing some location dialog recording for a short film, and I need pointers on a mic setup. The majority of the film is being shot inside an empty concrete fort on an island in Washington, and involves a bit of screaming. This is the first time that I've done anything like this, so I'm sorry if I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been looking at this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation Does that seem ok to get me started? I have absolutely no money for a recorder, so I think I'll just try to find someplace in Seattle that can rent me one of the nice Sound Devices boxes (again, recommendations welcome). This is really exciting, but I hate not really knowing what I'm looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. __________________ Josh Donnelly Resonance Digital Arts - Seattle, WA http://www.resonancedigital.com

20th August 2006	#3
Junkie Gear addict Joined: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 410	obvious choices would be shotgun mic's, room mic's, lavlier/butterfly (small in-clothing) mic's. often people overdub the scene with script back in the studio, a good IR (impulse response) of the room you filmed in or decent reverb unit is needed to emulate the room ambience ofcourse __________________ K.R.S.

20th August 2006	#4
pkautzsch Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,521	Lo-Budget and film sound are two things that won't go very well together. Well, actually, lo-budget is relative, and even a small Sound Devices recorder can be considered lo-budget when compared to the BIG stuff. As to the mics: Inside, probably super-cardioids will work better than shotguns. Schoeps CCM-41 is very small and lightweight, and has the usual high quality. Shotguns would be Sennheiser MKH416 or MKH60. So these are what you should ask for at the rental facility. On location, sound is usually not the most important thing, and the last thing a film crew needs is a sound guy hanging around the shot all the time installing mics. Location sound often is to make the best of a situation that actually isn't good at all. You're best off with just a boom mic to start with. In 97% of all cases this is sufficient - other 3% include cars, public transport like planes, trains..., underwater shots, and very wide shots, as well as lots of lights where the shadow of the boom will always be in the frame. __________________ Microphones always make me sound louder and better! -- Guitar Girl

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20th August 2006	#2
dolo72 Gear Head Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 45	Have you ever recorded sound for film before or assisted or been a runner on a film while watching the sound recordist and boom op/s ? I think in direct answer to the package proposed is that you are better off hiring all the kit you need. You will be able to ask the kit hire people questions if something goes wrong. Is it to be shot on video or on film, with or without video assist and what are the dialogue scenes like i.e. loads of people talking at once or mainly two person or one person? Also lastly do you have a boom op or is it a one man band type situation?

21st August 2006	#5
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,562	Without sounding snobbish, in my opinion you want to stay away from A-T mics. The Sennheiser 416 and Schoeps MK41 are the INDUSTRY STANDARDS, for a reason. I did production sound on several low budget indies early in my career to get the film sound design and post mix jobs, and learned a LOT about it. I learned my Audio Technica shotguns did not improve with good preamps, and that DAT preamps suck in general. I learned about timecode, slates, and getting great room tone and location effect tracks. I also learned a LOT of about boom miking techniques, cutting down reflections using sound blankets, and how sound is not important- until you did not get the take perfectly. I think renting a recordist's kit is the best idea, and finding a mentor you can discuss all the elements of film location recording is imperative. Good luck!

21st August 2006	#6
celticrogues Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 709	If you are on location see if there is a place you can hide some small lav mics in the set (not on the actors). There are usually places where you can hide a small mic where it will not be visible to the camera but it will pick up ambience better than a shotgun copuld in some instances. Good luck! -Mike

28th September 2009	#7
jjb Gear Head Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 48	If you're shooting inside (and especially in a concrete bunker like any of the coastal forts down there around Whidbey Island) you're probably better off with a Hypercardioid, and you're going to have to hang up some sound blankets and such to try and cut out as much of that reverb as possible to get clean dialog. I haven't been down to Ft. Casey in a few years now, but I remember the crazy reverb. Remember that your only job is to record good dialog. Ambience (beyond room tone) can be recorded at another time if it's needed, trying to record it with a film crew hard at work isn't going to give you a good result. I'll 2nd/3rd/Nth renting the kit. The location you're working with is going to be pretty difficult for sound, so getting your hands on some better gear might give you a little extra edge. You want to be in as good a condition physically as you can be before swinging the boom around for 12+ hours. If you've never boomed before, be ready for some sore shoulders and arms! Google around for boom operator technique and you'll probably find some decent pointers.