Coles 4040 never ceases to amaze - tips to get the best from them...

[naturalstudio]

I got an e-mail from someone enquiring about the Coles 4040s which prompted me to post this thread.

Okay, I admit I'm beginning to sound like a rep for these mic's, but for me, Coles have really struck gold with the 4040s.

I've always found that, especially on guitar, condensers add a slightly spitty high end (yes, even Schoeps, which I love).

On the other hand, I've usually found ribbons too dark. This is also true with the 4040 - to me, it seems to have a gradual roll off above 10KHz, coupled with a slightly exaggerated low end. The specs had suggested otherwise and, initially, this led me to be less than impressed with the 4040. However, the beauty of the Coles 4040 is that it takes HF EQ better than any mic I've previously used.

If you want a natural sound with these ribbons, I would recommend a very high quality EQ as mandatory for a touch of high shelf boost and low cut. I've been having great results with the Algorithmix PEQ Red. The great thing is that, once you've added the HF boost, it sounds as open as any condenser, but without that brittle top end. This suggests to me that the ribbon is definitely picking up the details, it just need a little helping hand recovering them!

Yesterday I was doing some test recordings of my Lowden O-10 acoustic for an upcoming session. I tried out a load of mic's but ended up settling for the 4040s (again!). To my ears, they are leaps and bounds ahead of everything I own in terms of replicating the source sound.

The recording below used a Blumlein pair pointed directly at the sound hole, from slightly above, about a hand span away. This brings me to another point - mic placement is absolutely critical with these mic's (particularly when using them in Blumlein configuration). I tried spaced pairs, different distances, Blumlein on its side, but, ultimately, standard Blumlein won. (Also, strange that it should work so well pointed directly at the soundhole!). I've never been all that keen on widely spaced pairs on guitar as it seems to give a larger than life sound which I find a little nauseating to listen to.

For me, this is the most successful steel string guitar sound I've captured – particularly given the fact it was recorded in my personal studio (most of my recordings are done on location). This recording has nothing added but the above-mentioned EQ. The guitar is a Lowden O-10 Cedar with quite jaded Elixir Custom Lights, played with a Dunlop .46mm pick.

http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/misc/guitarintro.wav

[T.RayBullard]

sounds really good, Douglas. I think you made a very wise decision with those ribbons . One thing though, the high E string is out of tune.

Originally Posted by naturalstudio

I got an e-mail from someone enquiring about the Coles 4040s which prompted me to post this thread.

Okay, I admit I'm beginning to sound like a rep for these mic's, but for me, Coles have really struck gold with the 4040s.

I've always found that, especially on guitar, condensers add a slightly spitty high end (yes, even Schoeps, which I love).

On the other hand, I've usually found ribbons too dark. This is also true with the 4040 - to me, it seems to have a gradual roll off above 10KHz, coupled with a slightly exaggerated low end. The specs had suggested otherwise and, initially, this led me to be less than impressed with the 4040. However, the beauty of the Coles 4040 is that it takes HF EQ better than any mic I've previously used.

If you want a natural sound with these ribbons, I would recommend a very high quality EQ as mandatory for a touch of high shelf boost and low cut. I've been having great results with the Algorithmix PEQ Red. The great thing is that, once you've added the HF boost, it sounds as open as any condenser, but without that brittle top end. This suggests to me that the ribbon is definitely picking up the details, it just need a little helping hand recovering them!

Yesterday I was doing some test recordings of my Lowden O-10 acoustic for an upcoming session. I tried out a load of mic's but ended up settling for the 4040s (again!). To my ears, they are leaps and bounds ahead of everything I own in terms of replicating the source sound.

The recording below used a Blumlein pair pointed directly at the sound hole, from slightly above, about a hand span away. This brings me to another point - mic placement is absolutely critical with these mic's (particularly when using them in Blumlein configuration). I tried spaced pairs, different distances, Blumlein on its side, but, ultimately, standard Blumlein won. (Also, strange that it should work so well pointed directly at the soundhole!). I've never been all that keen on widely spaced pairs on guitar as it seems to give a larger than life sound which I find a little nauseating to listen to.

For me, this is the most successful steel string guitar sound I've captured – particularly given the fact it was recorded in my personal studio (most of my recordings are done on location). This recording has nothing added but the above-mentioned EQ. The guitar is a Lowden O-10 Cedar with quite jaded Elixir Custom Lights, played with a Dunlop .46mm pick.

http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/misc/guitarintro.wav

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

sounds really good, Douglas. I think you made a very wise decision with those ribbons . One thing though, the high E string is out of tune.

Glad you like it. Yeah, the whole thing is slightly out of tune - it was just a test recording, so I wasn't too concerned about tuning. Also, the strings are shot anyway.

[David Spearritt]

Douglas, keep the tips coming. Wonderful stuff. My pair of 4040's have arrived in the country and I am expecting them on my doorstep in the next day or so. As is the AEA ribbon pre to amplify them. I spoke at length with Fred Forssell a few years back about building me an amp for my then Royer SF12. So now he has done it in a nice little discrete package with a very high input impedance, absolutely ideal for these beautiful mics.

The sample sounds excellent, even the pick flexibility and attack can be determined easily. Thats a very nice Lowden btw. Maybe the mics are a smidgen too close, but Blumlein is hands down the best mic technique for acoustic guitar bar none. The first thing my Coles will be fired up on will be my Martin D35, I'll post some samples soon.

I am very excited about these mics for classical chamber music and particularly voice, where I think they will become one of the best options available.

[ISedlacek]

I wonder how they would compare to AEA R84, about which I am secretly thinking to add to my sound alchemy place in some future ...

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Douglas, keep the tips coming. Wonderful stuff. My pair of 4040's have arrived in the country and I am expecting them on my doorstep in the next day or so. As is the AEA ribbon pre to amplify them. I spoke at length with Fred Forssell a few years back about building me an amp for my then Royer SF12. So now he has done it in a nice little discrete package with a very high input impedance, absolutely ideal for these beautiful mics.

The sample sounds excellent, even the pick flexibility and attack can be determined easily. Thats a very nice Lowden btw. Maybe the mics are a smidgen too close, but Blumlein is hands down the best mic technique for acoustic guitar bar none. The first thing my Coles will be fired up on will be my Martin D35, I'll post some samples soon.

I am very excited about these mics for classical chamber music and particularly voice, where I think they will become one of the best options available.

Thanks for the comments - I'm sure you'll be happy with the Coles. Let me know how you get on with that pre-amp; I've been having a sly look at that too.

With regards to the guitar itself - yes, it's one of the last batch of Irish made Lowdens before they moved factory and is a particularly fine sounding example.

In a better sounding room, I'd be tempted to move the mic's a bit further back, but in my room, a hand-span away (around 9 inches, last time I checked!) seemed to offer the best sound for the sort of project I'm going to be producing.

[DaveD]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

My pair of 4040's have arrived in the country and I am expecting them on my doorstep in the next day or so.

Dave, may I ask what you paid for them up there? Down here (Melb) they're going for $1900 + GST.

[David Spearritt]

Dave, slightly less than that. Talk to John Barry Group, they are agents for Coles.

[DaveD]

Can anyone here compare the Coles with the Royer SF12? I'd be interested to hear about any sonic differences, if possible.

Thanks.

[Yannick]

I would like to know about the AEA ribbon pre.
I have 16ch of Grace 801 preamps, and I'm curious if this ribbon pre can give any advantages for our Royer ribbons.

[TBlizz]

Originally Posted by DaveD

Can anyone here compare the Coles with the Royer SF12? I'd be interested to hear about any sonic differences, if possible.

Check out the Ribbon Roundup CD.

No Royer SF12, but Royer R-122 & Royer R-121.

Good luck!

[mosrite]

Makes me wonder if I really should be selling my Coles 4040... Thing is when used as a "side" in my MS array it just doesnt match the mid mic enough which gives an unusual stereo picture. I love the 4040 but money is an issue and am about to sell it to get a Schoeps mk8.

Douglas, the mid I was using with the 4040 was the Brauner (which I know you also own). Did you find with MS with those 2 mics a problem with the stereo image? I know many argue that in MS matching does not matter but I am not finding that (especially at the edge of the soundstage)

Its either the Coles 4040 or the Schoeps MK8 as a Side mic at the moment.

[mosrite]

I wonder how they would compare to AEA R84, about which I am secretly thinking to add to my sound alchemy place in some future ...

We shot the 4040 out against the AEA84 a couple of years ago and felt the 84 lacked the richness of the 4040. It sounded thin (for a ribbon) and just didnt grab us. Also, perhaps not relevent, the build quality of the AEA84 was very shoddy. The wire grill was badly cut and the rest felt plastic. Same cannot be said for the 4040 which exudes quality. Its gold plated for a start!

Hmmm. Really wondering about selling this Coles now...

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Makes me wonder if I really should be selling my Coles 4040... Thing is when used as a "side" in my MS array it just doesnt match the mid mic enough which gives an unusual stereo picture. I love the 4040 but money is an issue and am about to sell it to get a Schoeps mk8.

Douglas, the mid I was using with the 4040 was the Brauner (which I know you also own). Did you find with MS with those 2 mics a problem with the stereo image? I know many argue that in MS matching does not matter but I am not finding that (especially at the edge of the soundstage)

Its either the Coles 4040 or the Schoeps MK8 as a Side mic at the moment.

Coincidentally enough, the only thing I tried out M/S with this particular combo was on close mic'd guitar. It took a while to get the alignment of the two mic's correct as the capsule in the Brauner isn't in the centre of the grill (well, it isn't in mine). Here's a clip:

http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/misc/midside_1.wav

Same guitar, exact same strings (but this was in March!). Probably a slightly lighter pick (by the sounds of things). Different room, but similar size. Again, this would only have been EQ as it was a test recording.

I've rented the Schoeps MK8 a couple of times and never seemed to get on with it. The off axis response seemed a bit wacky to me.

[mosrite]

I decided not to sell the 4040. I was on the verge and then did some tests on sources with the 4040 against likely contenders (thats available to me). On electric guitar the 4040 absolutely rocks. Compared to the SM57 it just sounded smooth, rich and generally stunning.

I have to say though that I find on a lot of sources it sounds quite closed. Perhaps Douglas you are right about the EQ and as I dont have any great EQs to use I might not be getting the full benefit of the mic. Compared to the Schoeps on acoustic guitar the Coles sounded mushy and closed. The Schoeps was streets ahead. I have found this in the past on various other sources but the fact that the Coles excels on electric guitar, percussion and sometimes voice has made me reconsider selling.

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by mosrite

I have to say though that I find on a lot of sources it sounds quite closed. Perhaps Douglas you are right about the EQ and as I dont have any great EQs to use I might not be getting the full benefit of the mic. Compared to the Schoeps on acoustic guitar the Coles sounded mushy and closed. The Schoeps was streets ahead.

I'd have to agree with you 100% when using the mic's flat - the Schoeps gets closer to the original sound. But, as I said, the Coles mandates a high quality EQ. I find that the 4040 is picking up as much detail as the Schoeps. What did you think of the Blumlein acoustic guitar recording attached above?

[David Spearritt]

Got my pair of Coles and the Blumlein mount in my hot hands today. Big heavy buggers they are. I will post some samples in the next few days when I find a decent preamp. Still waiting on the AEA to arrive.

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Got my pair of Coles and the Blumlein mount in my hot hands today. Big heavy buggers they are. I will post some samples in the next few days when I find a decent preamp. Still waiting on the AEA to arrive.

Have fun with them - just be sure to be a little bit careful with the Coles mount; the plastic bit on mine snapped and had to be replaced (a bit annoying, considering the price!).

[David Spearritt]

Thanks for the tip Douglas. I noticed they included an extra plastic blade, maybe that's why. Under what condition did it snap? during a recording while it was still or while you were moving the mics and the stand?

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Thanks for the tip Douglas. I noticed they included an extra plastic blade, maybe that's why. Under what condition did it snap? during a recording while it was still or while you were moving the mics and the stand?

I was just adjusting it into Blumlein config and it just snapped - it kind of took me by surprise as it seemed quite sturdy.

Anyway, it's good to know that they're including a spare - they must have decided to do that since mine snapped as I had to get one sent out specially. By my reckoning, there are only around 100 of these mic's in end user's hands - what serial number was yours? I ordered one in January and it's serial number was in the low sixties. My second one's serial number (ordered in June) was in the early seventies!

Douglas.

[David Spearritt]

I have 076 and 079. These were ordered about two weeks ago. So yes, not many sold yet. But I think I wll get my machinist to make up some aluminium blades to replaced the plastic, and write to Coles about a design change if they break. The build quality of these mics and the rest of that clamp is very high. I am most impressed.

[naturalstudio]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

I have 076 and 079. These were ordered about two weeks ago. So yes, not many sold yet. But I think I wll get my machinist to make up some aluminium blades to replaced the plastic, and write to Coles about a design change if they break. The build quality of these mics and the rest of that clamp is very high. I am most impressed.

Yes - I almost want to keep these mic's to myself. I feel like I'm advertising them too much at the moment; I want them to be my little secret >:)

If you do decide to get aluminium ones machined, let me know how they work out. I don't think the plastic is there for any sonic benefits, so aluminium would be preferable.

[naturalstudio]

Here's another clip:

http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/misc/...newstrings.wav

The same specs as the first clip, but with new strings: Thomastik Spectrum Bronze 12s.

The difference is quite amazing.