Apogee Ensemble pre vs. DAV, RNP, Hamptone, Brick ?

[wayne mox]

I don't know what the Apogee sounds like. But I will tell you my experience with the others.

DAV BG1 - Transparently silky. Wide three-dimensional sound. Extended bass response. Very detailed and accurate.

Hamptone JFET- Smooth, less transparent than BG1. Punchy but smooth. Kinda between a Neve and an API, I've used both. Little less detailed than BG1. Bass response less than DAV BG1. Top end attenuated a bit. Not so bright on top.

RNP - Scratchy on top end. Bass end less extended and less detailed than above mentioned. Not as smooth as above mentioned. Still a good one though, but it's deficiencies are clearly apparent when compared to higher end pres.

[Jpec]

Thanks, I've been seriously thinking of getting the DAV, does anybody have any other thoughts about the pre's on the Ensemble?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Jpec

Thanks, I've been seriously thinking of getting the DAV, does anybody have any other thoughts about the pre's on the Ensemble?

I own 20 channels of DAV and a hamptone, so I can comment on those two.

DAV--just like Wayne Mox said..huge, 3d sound, detailed and very present. Clean, but not sterile. Seems to "finish" everything that runs through it.

Hamptone-HVTp2--liquid midrange, VERY euphonic, pleasant highs lows, rich, large sound..more colored than the DAV. I also own 4 pendulum MDP1s, and the hamptone to me is pretty much indistinguishable from them...

[Jpec]

T. Ray,

Thanks for your input. Have you had any experience with the Ensemble's pre's ? I think that I am going to get the DAV BG-1 regardless of the pres on the ensemble even though I only need the 4.

[Jpec]

By the way I have heard of mods done to the DAV, is it worth it?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Jpec

By the way I have heard of mods done to the DAV, is it worth it?

Considering the price and how long it takes to do the chip swap....I personally wouldnt do it.

The DAV is wonderful as-is. I trust the manufacturers ears and judgement. That being said, use it as-is, and if there is something you want out of it(that you cannot get by mic placement or EQ, etc) then maybe look at mods..DONT automatically assume that the mods will make it "better".

[Jpec]

T. Ray,

It looks like Im going to have to sell some stuff and pray for some money to come my way!

[salomonander]

Dear JPec

be carefull with those DAV preamps. Some people seem to support them ridicolously on this forum. I don't know why. I tried it out once and was seriousaly underwhealmed. To me it sounded un-natural (never heared such bad transiences on plucked instruments) and not smooth at all. A lot of people I know sold theirs after owning it for a while. Just be carefull and don't believe those people that do nothing else than hyping products on this forum.
Try the preamp before buying it...and try it with some plucked instruments.

all the best
Jakob

[Jpec]

Jakob, Id love to hear one firsthand,but since I live in the US It may be nearly impossible unless I can track down a studio in Nashville and beg them to let me hear it and compare it to some others.

thanks
John

[OVERNIGHT]

OK, so now that's two. I thought my friend must either have gotten a faulty unit or something must have been up. I know he's got good ears and lots of experience. He had the DAV 2 channel unit, found he really didn't love it and sold it a couple of months later. But all I hear on these board is how unfreakinbelievable they are. I'm beginning to wonder about the hype on this thing. Though I reserve all judgement, positive or negative, until I actually hear one myself.

[squeegybug]

Every tool is different for different applications of course. DAV has a strong sound, and I liked it over many other preamps I have owned.

But overall I found it a little too "hyper realistic" for my needs, preferring some more lyrical sounding tones. So I sold it too.

As for RNP -- I didn't keep that one long either. Just not very musical to me.

Sorry I have not used the others in your list.

Steve

[Jeraz]

I was underwhelmed by clips and recordings that I heard on all of these (except the Hampton, which haven't heard). I might have tried a D.A.V. in person to see, but if I imported it from the UK and didn't like it, then what? I decided that I would work local suppliers so that I could return something if it didn't work for me. I settled on 2-channels of John Hardy M-1.

Which brings me to my next point...why not buy ONE channel of something REALLY good that you can build on? Do you do a lot of stereo recording now? I started out one-micing Acoustic guitar, but now mic in Stereo...but if I couldn't afford the quality of gear that I wanted to do stereo, I would rather buy the quality I could afford for mono mic and preamp, than settle for less and buy more gear.

Now, maybe the D.A.V. or Brick is just the thing for you, but with the above in mind, it might not prove a bad idea to ALSO LISTEN to John Hardy, API, SPECK, Phoenix, Great River, etc...

I haven't heard the Ensemble's pres, and I am betting that they are respectable, but I would also bet (this is a bet now, so there is risk of being wrong) that they are comparable with Onyx, RME, Presonus, etc., and NOT on par with Hardy, API, Phoenix etc., in terms of adding something musical to the pie.

Best,

Mark

[Plush]

I am one of the DAV BG series acolytes scorned above.

May I suggest that once a person gets a really high quality neutral mic amp, that it is even more possible than usual to hear the source.

The source is making the sound, not the mic amp.


I would never term the DAV mic amps as:
strong OR
hyper realistic OR
unable to deliver transients (by the way there are no big transients in acoustic gtr sound) On the other hand, an orchestral bass drum has TRANSIENTS!!!


They convey the source.

[david_fowler]

Have you considered the Earthworks preamp?From all reports it is very transparent and has no color.
OTOH you could try for a John Hardy ($$$) if you have the $$$.

[T.RayBullard]

Maybe because they sound great? There is a guy on another forum who just pops in to wail on Mick's product .. I think I may have just made a connection. ...
Gearslutz is about gear, right? I will gladly send Jpec my spare to try.

Originally Posted by salomonander

Dear JPec

be carefull with those DAV preamps. Some people seem to support them ridicolously on this forum. I don't know why. I tried it out once and was seriousaly underwhealmed. To me it sounded un-natural (never heared such bad transiences on plucked instruments) and not smooth at all. A lot of people I know sold theirs after owning it for a while. Just be carefull and don't believe those people that do nothing else than hyping products on this forum.
Try the preamp before buying it...and try it with some plucked instruments.

all the best
Jakob

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by OVERNIGHT

Though I reserve all judgement, positive or negative, until I actually hear one myself.

That is a good idea. Spouting second hand info means nothing.

this is real life, everyone has different ears! Of course they arent going to be wonderful to everyone. But as this site is about GEAR..gear is going to get hyped. Hell, I bought into the millennia hype for a long time, bought 3 of them and couldnt stand them. bought into the GML 8302 , bought it, didnt like it. If they are wonderful to some people, what is it to you? They arent nearly as hyped as NEEV or API or BAE.. If you dont like the "hype" then go the other way, but dont knock other's experiences. And noone here is on any payroll, noone has any ulterior motives. Mick is a one man operation. For some, finding the right piece of gear is a glorious thing. For me, that was DAV.

[Jpec]

Whoa! I had no idea that my silly little question would start such a debate! Well I guess that since we all are involved in music which is a pursuit of passion, its no surprise that we should be at least equally passionate about the gear!

[Jpec]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Which brings me to my next point...why not buy ONE channel of something REALLY good that you can build on? Do you do a lot of stereo recording now? I started out one-micing Acoustic guitar, but now mic in Stereo...but if I couldn't afford the quality of gear that I wanted to do stereo, I would rather buy the quality I could afford for mono mic and preamp, than settle for less and buy more gear.

Now, maybe the D.A.V. or Brick is just the thing for you, but with the above in mind, it might not prove a bad idea to ALSO LISTEN to John Hardy, API, SPECK, Phoenix, Great River, etc...

Best,

Mark

I do prefer to record stereo acoustic guitar, but I am not inflexible on that point.
I was thinking of the API (a little beyond my means right now) or the seventh circle stuff (but I hardly know the correct working end of a soldering iron). I really need to stay around the 500 -700 $ mark since I record mainly for my personal enjoyment (sadly I love good sound) and since I have read the impressive comments about the DAV I figured that it might be right for me. You do make the obvious point of actually listening to the pre's themselves which is well taken, I guess I am drawn to a potential good value despite the risk (read cheap ) One really good mono pre is better than 10 not so good ones no matter what the brand. I live an hour and a half from Nashville I wonder if I could rent an hour or two just to sit down and try a few out, Im not sure that it would be practical since I don't know what the going hourly rates are, perhaps Ill call the guys at Primal Gear to see what they say.

[Jpec]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

Maybe because they sound great? There is a guy on another forum who just pops in to wail on Mick's product .. I think I may have just made a connection. ...
Gearslutz is about gear, right? I will gladly send Jpec my spare to try.

T. Ray,

Thank you for your very gracious offer, but since you live in Germany and I in the US, I would feel very nervous about such a test drive, and thus I am compelled to decline. I admit I am stunned and edified by your offer. Thank you

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by Jpec

I was thinking of the API (a little beyond my means right now) or the seventh circle stuff (but I hardly know the correct working end of a soldering iron). I really need to stay around the 500 -700 $ mark since I record mainly for my personal enjoyment (sadly I love good sound) and since I have read the impressive comments about the DAV I figured that it might be right for me.

Hamptone JFET it is brother. That's what I currently have, and I have no plans to ever sell it. Get one preassembled for $800. Scott Hamton is wonderful human.

I've had API 312's and I've had Neve 1272. The Hampy is right there between them in sound. And it's underhyped.

BTW I do all acoustic stuff, guitar, violin, piano, usually only reverb. I also have some excellent acoustic mics in the form of AKG 451EB CK-1 (older one's from early 70's. So they compliment the Hampy perfectly.

[teachingking]

Wayne, it sounds as though you have parted with the BG1 in favor of the Hamptone? Why?

[wayne mox]

Originally Posted by teachingking

Wayne, it sounds as though you have parted with the BG1 in favor of the Hamptone? Why?

I loved the BG1, especially for its nice extended bass, but I really needed something to quench the high end of my 451 mics. The BG1 was too real, but the Hampy brought the 451's under control. I won't part with my 451's because there isn't a mic as versatile and beautiful as vintage early 70's CK-1 capsules, plus the 3 position bass rolloff on the amp bodies. The mics were more important than the pre in this case.

[hopeless_opus]

About a year ago I was choosing between these exact same 4 pres for my little home setup. I went with the Hamptone JFET after doing a lot of resarch and taliking to a few more expirienced engineers than myself. (one who knew somebody who had one and loved it)

I have no regrets, I love it! Imho, it really delivers high end sound at a bargain price. (especially if you can build the kit, or know someone who can) Plus it's a great Bass DI as well.

However, I wouldn't have had any reservations about owning any of the pres your looking at. Since you already have 4 clean (supposedly pretty good) pres in the ensamble, why not get a little more mojo (ie color) with the Hamptone or a pair of Bricks.