Distance effect on vocals...BAD

[ExistanceMusic]

I'm working in a club at the moment doing live sound, and I'm having some problems with the vocals on a regular basis.
We do fairly loud world music, with lots of crazy instruments, and the vocalist always want ALOT of themselves in the foldback, fair enough, but I'm finding that when they back off the mic (AKG D770- not my choice), even a little bit (anywhere further than 4-5") the sound gets REALLY hollow and nasty sounding, and if they have poor technique and always sing like this, and STILL want heaps of themselves in the wedges, I have to ride my gain stages and graphics like a crazy dude just to keep it from feeding back. And the proximity is horrid.

What I need is a mic that has huge gain before feedback, sounds decent with a little distance yet doesn't have a bastard proximity effect and works well with a wide variety of vocalists.
And if one mic wont do (IE if I need different mics for males and females) Then bring it on. I'll be buying these for me, not the club, so I can pretty much get whatever I can afford.

I was thinking maybe SM7, SM87, Beta58, along those lines....

[gregrw]

You usually can't go wrong with the old reliable 58. The Beta 58 works great, too. I've had pretty good luck with Audix stuff, esp. the OM5. One club I know uses a Sennheiser hand-held vocal, but I'm not sure which model. I have some old beyerdynamic M69s that seem pretty darn directional to me. That is great for reducing feedback, but not so good for bad technique...

If feedback is really killing you, try re-ringing. I don't know if you just set the EQ once and forget it, or if you re-zero at the end of the night. Two clubs I go to have every single fader on their 1/3 octaves most of the way down! ("Er, guys? Why not just turn down the volume?") Zero everything, amps, console, EQs, and start over. Sorry if you already knew this, but it's amazing how much a clean slate can help!

And of course, don't put anything in the vocalist's wedges other than vocals.

Good luck!

-GRW

[ExistanceMusic]

Yeah, I'm re-ringing every afternoon when I rock up, while there's noone there, and I'm getting closer, but it's a pain in the ass and I shouldn't have to do it, as the stage stays the same, the foldback speakers stay more or less the same, and the mixer is the same, it's just the performers that are changing.
I guess I need a mic that is hyper-cardiod, more or less. I do notice that when I PFL the vocal mic, I get more spill than I do from the horns or any other mics up there, but all those sound shitty on vocals. I guess I should get a 58 anyway, since they are such a standard, but they've been around that bloody long, isn't there something BETTER by now? Oh yeah, a Beta 58, should try one of those I guess.......


Any other suggestions?

[Steve Smith]

Set the level with them close to the mic and let them know that if they want to hear it, get in close. they will eventually learn..

[ExistanceMusic]

Good advice. What do I do about the mean-ass proximity effect, other than low-cut and rip out tons of 400hz?