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Rec. @ client's rehearsel room (Drum, Bass,Guitar)
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ProFool
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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Rec. @ client's rehearsel room (Drum, Bass,Guitar)

Hi,
I'm recording next week a cover band's demo @ there rehearsal room and tonight I would like to finish the deal and planning for the rec. & set-up.
As they are on a tight budget (100 Euro per song) and don't want to rent studio time but just want a demo with 6 songs to get more gigs.
Iv proposed to rec. the drums - bass & guitars in their rehearsal room and do the vocals at my place a few days later.
Then mix the next 2 or 3 days.
So for the rec. itself I have to use whatever they have.
For the drums they have there own mice's. (Not sure what but ill find out this week) About the pre's ill have to use a flat signal out of their mackie 24 channels 4-buss mixer.
For guitars its 2 Marshall's 800 I think and for bass a pre amp + fx rack with a Trace Elliot amp.
To make things easier I was thinking about,
mice the drums, have the line signal for the bass & guitar out of there pre's, make a headphone mix and hit rec.
After that reamp the bass & guitar amps and go.
But today im thinking more of tracking everything at once except for the vocals to get a tighter sound.
im a little worried about the room sound and the positioning of the amps.
Iv went to there room last week and the drums was set-up at the back of the room with on the left side (audience position) the Marshall's and right the Trace Elliot.
So my question is should ill rec. them like that or go for my first idea and record them with headphones mixes? in the first place i don't want to mess up the drum sound and there wil be allot of bleed i guess with those amps behind the kit.

Thanks.
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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Everything in your sitiuation depends on how good the band is live, if that's what you are after, and peoples expectations of what the end thing is going to sound like. As far as leakage, you'll possibly be surprised how much bleed there isn't from close mics, and possibly even the concept of @good@ bleed - especially if it sounds nice in the room and if they have their shit together, things can sound amazing..once upon a time there was a thing called performance rather than technical correctness which made for some awesome recordings.. Things like the snare will rattle like buggery, don't expect anything clinical, and fixing up can be a bit tricky, so work them like dogs for the take. A bit of isolation can be good, and personally I'd suggest that the musicians get a good balance in the room, have eye contact and use that rather than headphones, except for the singer if there's a guide vocal and drummer if there's a click. Or you can always use wedges..there's a fair few U2 vocal tracks that sound like theres some wedge in there ?!

Use the best mics and pres you can, cut flat and at a safe level if going to digital, if you can't get into a decent monitoring environment, then be prepared to use a heckuva lot of "knob" on your handiwork ! good luck !
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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the band has a very good live reputation, i do there live gig's aswel, except the rehearsal room is a bit boomy and the drummer is loud man! Pearl Rock kit. aaw my ears!
So for the monitoring it wil be a headphone job & possebly earplugs now & then
like you said ill take levels on safe for digital and do some fixing back home.
but what about bleed in the overheads from the amps pumping in the back of the kit ? or should i better let them move some where else?
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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Well, if your drummer is loud, then you'll get less amp bleed, yes ? Also bring your overheads a little closer (think live sound) You'll still probably freak at how much bleed you DON'T get..
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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Hire two rehearsal rooms one for guitar amps and one for drummer (thats if you can). Get a good headphone mix going and your away. Try and screen of the cabs. If the bass amps got gain and master volume crank up the gain on it but drop the master volume, record it low.

This way you can play with the overs and room mic without worry.
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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Thanks ill work it out, have to go there on friday( see what mice's they got )thumbsup
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27th October 2003
Old 27th October 2003
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The two rehearsal room idea sounds really good as long as all the musicians are in the same room as the drummer and only the amps are in the other space.

Another way:
If they DO have that great live reputation -- try capturng the vibe (amps and drums in one room) with room mics. Set youself up in a second room or space and use it as your CRM.

Tell us how your (remote) recording came out when you're done!
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27th October 2003
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The only obvious other suggestion would be to try and record them under better circumstances, like at their next live gig in a decent room. Forget about overdubbing anything in this case, just try to capture the best recording of the performance. If they live up to their reputation, the energy from a real live gig will more than makeup for what little control you would have had down in the rehearsal space. Especially when money is tight, a super simple live recording can be MUCH better than a discount semi-studio session. Just a thought......

good luck and you might want to check out the Remote forum for more ideas.
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27th October 2003
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yeah your'e maybe right ill just get a good live rec.
I might see a chance on the next gig .
Might even use Audience mice's yeah looks fun. Ill ask them.
If they don't want ill record them in there room.

hey thanks ill send them a email and find out. see ya later
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28th October 2003
Old 28th October 2003
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I'll chime in here. There certainly is an energy at a live show that isn't there in a studio, on-site or otherwise, and live recordings capture that. A practice space is still pretty cool, though. (That's actually my setup's main selling point.) The band is comfortable there, and that shows up in the recording, too.

There's not a lot you can do about acoustics of a practice space, and you also have to beware of bands in the next room! (It's fun trying to tape a mellow band while the screaming hardcore band is playing next door... :- ) Try moving the amps around, try turning them down, and all the other things that were said. Even putting some cheap "egg crate" foam or packing materials around the amps can help. Auralex they aren't, but they can help. One time we put a piece of drywall (or whatever material it was) in front of the kit, and it worked wonders. You'd be amazed what works.

I've used headphone mixes, and they work very well, and so can using the band's rehersal P.A. Bleed has not been as much a problem as one might think, even when overdubbing vocals later.

Is this band your "guinea pig" band? I have some friends in a band, and whenever I get something new, or want to record somewhere I haven't recorded before, I say "Hey guys, want to be guniea pigs...again?" That way, if something screws up, I won't be pissing off people who are paying clients! (I'm using that same band, Whiskey Down of Worcester, MA, this Thursday at world-famous Ralph's in Worcester. Those guys are saints! :- ) So hey, if you get along well with these guys, then try out a bunch of things, explaining you want to see how all these different ways work out, and it'll only cost them the 100 Euros. They'll get a few more tunes down then they might otherwise have done, and you'll get a bit of experience in different on-site techniques.

Welcome to the world of on-site. It's a whole different ballgame!

-GRW
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28th October 2003
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Iv been thinking a while last night & and a live recording seems fine to me.
exept storage is my next problem. They have a setlist from about 24 tracks playing for about 2 hours & more.
What do you guys tell the clients about backups and storage?

thanks


o yes they are a sort of "guinea pig" band but they don't know it. (more fun for me, when I do there live mix I always tryout & enjoying myself with some new mixing techniques iv learned around here.
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28th November 2003
Old 28th November 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by ProFool
Iv been thinking a while last night & and a live recording seems fine to me.
exept storage is my next problem. They have a setlist from about 24 tracks playing for about 2 hours & more.
What do you guys tell the clients about backups and storage?
ProFool, how did the gig go? Audio audio clips up to share?

As for backup, the easiest thing usually is charge the client an extra hour or two for backups - this can cover the cost of drives/media if you are an operation that charges enough per hour. Another way is to let the client know what media you use, and give them the option to pay for it or provide it themselves.

Lately, firewire drives and dvds are working for alot of people.
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28th November 2003
Old 28th November 2003
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Hey,

the session whent great, the session was last week.
came in early to hook everything up and the band came in at 19.00h soundcheck and hit the button.
we finaly did 5 tracks, 4 of them really rocks and the rest was a bit fuzzy. 1 sure is ready for beat detective.
As for the gear, I had to use whatever i could get my hands, My little pt rig and for mic's and pres they had a soundcraft 16 channels, & mices were NDN10 CAD on floor tom, 2x Tsm411 CAD , kick Shure, Snare TSM 411CAD, HH E8155 senheiser and overheads Cm 15. Monitoring was with the good old headphone so a bit fingerspitchengefeule (handy knob work in german or something) on bas & git i had 2 sm57 and a line singal each.

Wel almost everything whent fine exept for erasing the last take whitout noticing it. Pretty embarrasing shit dfegad stil dont know what happend. Ill add it to the wurst thing you ever did thread

As for getting levels everything great exept for the inputs on my 001 , could not get more than -+ -25db but just used them for bas & git mic & scrath vocal.
Did a pre mix and some editing, ready for vocal overdubs this evening and the rest is for tommorow.
for backup I bought a dvd rw yesterday and have been cleaning disks alnight.

The sillyest news of all is, iv ended up doing the gig for free(or almost) they wanted to wait for a while when i wrote them an email with some explenation, rate and backup details etc. so I decided to couple them to a pc performance test couse its been a little unstable the past few weeks. Need to tweak the machine again, even tought about a big hammer but not quite yet sure wil smach the thing someday.
I dont mind the free gig good for demo reals etc.
For Audio clips I still have to figure out how to post it Jay, and there is stil some work to be done.

need some sleep now

greetz
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28th November 2003
Old 28th November 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by ProFool

For Audio clips I still have to figure out how to post it Jay, and there is stil some work to be done.

need some sleep now

greetz
If you e-mail me some clips (MP3, AIFF, WAV) - I can throw them up on a server and then just post a link to the thread...

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28th November 2003
Old 28th November 2003
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ill send them when ready or almost, ill see how it goes.
thinking of doing the upgrade to pt6 next week, will need that BT and the meek bundle again.
Id did the first roughs with the meeks and sounded great, but like mentioned before the room sounds trough.
glad i can do vocal dubbs, because they have alot of snare and room bleed.
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28th November 2003
Old 28th November 2003
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Damn session cancelled, to much mist on the road.
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29th November 2003
Old 29th November 2003
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The PT6 upgrade should be easy and fun.

Make sure you upgrade your mac to 10.2.6, that's about it. PT6 works great for me, and I open up sessions done on Macs and PCs in PT5 all the time. PT6 lets you know what is up, and asks you if you want to use your current hardware and/or I/O settings.

Have a few good plug in bundles, yet nothing much. Find myself using outside the box effects more often, and starting to re-route stuff into eq and dynamics processing. Not always as an "insert" - yet sometimes as a 2nd re-amped signal. Great way to add some character to a sound, especially when you run a digital signal through something with transformers on the input and output stages.

I was thinking of setting up a temporary GS audio server. It would be something that had to be regulated, and users would be able to put up audio files of relevance. Memembers would most likely have to use an FTP client to access the server. Freeware FTP clients are available for PC, and for Mac it may set you back $20.

I like the idea of putting up something I'm mixing just to get a few fresh ears on it. Could turn into something cool, if everyone promised not to let the shared tracks get onto napster!

anyone, bueller?
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