How long have you been mixing ITB?
Roland
Thread Starter
#1
30th January 2013
Old 30th January 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
How long have you been mixing ITB?

Now that almost all of us are using DAW's of one type or another, I thought it would be interesting to see how many are now mixing ITB and for how long they have been doing it.

I was looking back over a couple of CD's and DVD's that I recorded and realized that I've been mixing ITB since around 2000/2001. When it comes to digital workstations, I've been editing with computers since about 1990, recording with Hard disc and computer since around 1996.

I listened to a couple of recordings that I mixed using Logic Audio in 2001 and 2003, both were DVD's and the reason for mixing ITB was more a pragmatic one due to the need to generate surround mixes with complex muting and automation and be able to buss out surround without complicating things with a standard stereo buss desk that I owned at the time.

I do remember having set up the whole 2 hr session in Logic, I then saved the session as several sessions, one for each audio track, so that I could then mix them individually and then knock them back to the original master session to add the audience/ambience microphones and produce the final 5.1 session.

What I found most interesting is that they sounded pretty good, particularly when I considered that it was using 12 year old software on computers that by modern comparison would be painfully slow.

That's my experience, what's yours?
#2
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Full mixes in the box since '95 or so, premixes for a few years before that (to DA88). My last mix on a regular mixer here was in 1994. I went directly from a manual mix on an analog board to ITB mixing. We've never had a digital console in here.

philp
#3
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Not nearly at that level... but when I moved from Radius EdtiDV to Final Cut in 2000 (audio-for-video being my main need), everything went ITB then. Mackie Onyx 1220FW in 2004 began location tracking/recording with the computer (as opposed to 2-mix to the master camera or a CD recorder).
Roland
Thread Starter
#4
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Full mixes in the box since '95 or so, premixes for a few years before that (to DA88). My last mix on a regular mixer here was in 1994. I went directly from a manual mix on an analog board to ITB mixing. We've never had a digital console in here.

philp
The first session I recorded ITB was in 1994/1995 with session 8 fronted by Logic, though the mixing was done outside. I don't know how limited the number of tracks were at that time, but we were running both midi instruments and live recorded tracks.

My first ITB mixes were running from 20-35 tracks.

What software did you use when you started ITB?
#5
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Im still outside the box for mixing,love my Sonosax .
Inside for edit and process using Logics WaveBurner.
Which is 2008, but more than enough for me.
Roger
#6
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #6
Lives for gear
 
mpdonahue's Avatar
Well, It depends on what you mean by mixing in the box.
I did my first multitrack edit/mix on the Lexicon Opus around 1991. I cut my teeth on the Sonic Solutions 24 track editor in 1992. But, for the most part, in the late 1990's we mixed outside the box till we started using Pyramix.
All the best,
-mark
#7
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
The first session I recorded ITB was in 1994/1995 with session 8 fronted by Logic, though the mixing was done outside. I don't know how limited the number of tracks were at that time, but we were running both midi instruments and live recorded tracks.

My first ITB mixes were running from 20-35 tracks.

What software did you use when you started ITB?
For premixing, in the old days we had a Turtle Beach 56k (stereo only). The first ITB stuff was on a long-gone system called Softsplice, followed quickly by Spectral, then ProTools (3-4-5) then to Sadie where I still am. The early ITB stuff mirrored how I'd worked with an analog board and a DA88 (and before that, an analog 8 track deck w/ TC and a CTTC 2 track), so we got away with 8 chan for awhile. That was just how a lot of TV docs etc were done back then. The track count grew when our gear allowed it to!

philp
Roland
Thread Starter
#8
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
For premixing, in the old days we had a Turtle Beach 56k (stereo only). The first ITB stuff was on a long-gone system called Softsplice, followed quickly by Spectral, then ProTools (3-4-5) then to Sadie where I still am. The early ITB stuff mirrored how I'd worked with an analog board and a DA88 (and before that, an analog 8 track deck w/ TC and a CTTC 2 track), so we got away with 8 chan for awhile. That was just how a lot of TV docs etc were done back then. The track count grew when our gear allowed it to!

philp
Wow! I also had Turtle Beach 56k! Crude looking back on it now, but I was able to make it work for me.
#9
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Wow! I also had Turtle Beach 56k! Crude looking back on it now, but I was able to make it work for me.
And labor intensive! No time line, at least in the version I had, you had to do the math to come with the correct-length time gaps to put in between events to sync to picture in the playlist. That said, I did a lot of work with mine, and it sounded pretty good.

philp
#10
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 

Since 1993, on a Soundscape SSHDR1 digital audio recorder, hooked up to a windows 3.11 PC, with a 800 MB harddisk in de Soundscape unit (which at that time cost around 2000 dollar).

Mixing was a big word, 4tracks max.
End of 94 it was updated to 8 tracks !
#11
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
I may be the one person here who does not know, what is ITB?
Roland
Thread Starter
#12
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
I may be the one person here who does not know, what is ITB?
In The Box, i.e. not using an external mixer.
#13
31st January 2013
Old 31st January 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
In The Box, i.e. not using an external mixer.
Roland, I got that far the, ITB and OTB differentiation, but what is "The Box"?? Is the the actual DAW as a mixer/recorder et al for the session(s)??
Roland
Thread Starter
#14
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Roland, I got that far the, ITB and OTB differentiation, but what is "The Box"?? Is the the actual DAW as a mixer/recorder et al for the session(s)??
Yep!
nkf
#15
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #15
nkf
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
In The Box, i.e. not using an external mixer.
You mean an analog mixer? I mix partly in my DAWs, mainly Nuendo, and send the outputs to a Yamaha DM2000. So it's a mix (pun intended) between DAW mixing and external mixing. There is a lot of external hardware that I use within the DAW and with the mixer. The DAW and the mixer are large matrixes for digital signals too. Rarely I work just ITB but it can happen for few, simple tracks.

I had all digital mixing environments since about 1990.
Roland
Thread Starter
#16
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkf View Post
You mean an analog mixer? I mix partly in my DAWs, mainly Nuendo, and send the outputs to a Yamaha DM2000. So it's a mix (pun intended) between DAW mixing and external mixing. There is a lot of external hardware that I use within the DAW and with the mixer. The DAW and the mixer are large matrixes for digital signals too. Rarely I work just ITB but it can happen for few, simple tracks.

I had all digital mixing environments since about 1990.

No, I'm talking strictly in the box, effects, mixer, master mix et al. I had a friend playing with digital mixers back in the 80's.

We all have been using digital reverbs, digital delays fom many years, some of us digital mixers too. The leap to "trusting" everything within the computer including the actual mix to two (or more tracks).

We are talking, for clarity:

No Summing

No bussing of effects, even if they are on another computer,

No analogue sidechains

1 computer, audio stays digital in there.


Digital mixers have been around for quite a number of years and people have (mostly) had a positive attitude toward smany of them, the Sony Oxford is an obvious example.
#17
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #17
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
The first ITB stuff was on a long-gone system called Softsplice

philp
Ha - SoftSplice here too - I bought it with a top class, very well made, long warranty internal 1GB HD. I payed around 1250$ for the HD alone... I think it was 1992

::
Mads
nkf
#18
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #18
nkf
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
1 computer, audio stays digital in there.
Why is that so important? Of course it is doable and can sound very good, I did it too. For me that's something I may do a bit when using a notebook. Most people I know who stay ITB do this because they have to - it's because of costs. You can stay ITB even on an iPad now if you wish thanks AudioBus (I have all that too). If I do simpler mixes in 24/96 I stay nearly ITB quite often even if I can switch my mixer to 96 kHz - it's just convenient. But I cannot substitute some external boxes with plug ins - they don't exist in this quality.
Roland
Thread Starter
#19
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkf View Post
Why is that so important? Of course it is doable and can sound very good, I did it too. For me that's something I may do a bit when using a notebook. Most people I know who stay ITB do this because they have to - it's because of costs. You can stay ITB even on an iPad now if you wish thanks AudioBus (I have all that too). If I do simpler mixes in 24/96 I stay nearly ITB quite often even if I can switch my mixer to 96 kHz - it's just convenient. But I cannot substitute some external boxes with plug ins - they don't exist in this quality.

There are threads Ad Nauseam about in the box vs out the box, that is why this is about when people started, why (with occassional insights to their starting ITB experience).

For my classical work, I couldn't wait to get ITB as it makes workflow easier, and whilst with other mixing there have been occasionaly compromises over having racks of outboard, though it has to be said it is easy to forget all the compromises that have to be made to use racks of outboard gear and potentially an analogue (or even digital) desk.
#20
1st February 2013
Old 1st February 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
 
eoats's Avatar
Started mixing 'from the box' in 1991 from a NED Post Pro into a Neve (everyone else was still transferring out onto 2" 24trk or 6trk 35mm).

I didn't start mixing all in the box until around 2002 or so.
#21
2nd February 2013
Old 2nd February 2013
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Ha - SoftSplice here too - I bought it with a top class, very well made, long warranty internal 1GB HD. I payed around 1250$ for the HD alone... I think it was 1992

::
Mads
It was very advanced for its day at that price. The Softsplice had clip-based automation for everything it did--like Audiovision or Sequoia. I had mine made w/o an internal drive--I only used externals so I could easily swap out for different projects. The whole deal appeared to the host computer as a SCSI device, and did all its own DSP. Nice folks, sorry they went out of business.

philp
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Rokus666 / So much gear, so little time!
24
kokaby / So much gear, so little time!
139
luctellier / Music Computers
10
JohnnyTooLoud / So much gear, so little time!
5
JayCrouch / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
6

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.