Who uses Decca Tree here, and how?

[T.RayBullard]

I know about the AEA bar, but was curious how others tackle mounting the tree...

[ISedlacek]

Any link to AEA bar ? Decca tree is very tempting technique ... I have to try it once ...

[pkautzsch]

3 separate stands (K&M 20800) here. Most flexible, and much more unobtrusive than one big stand in the middle. Look at my photos in the Show&Tell Thread, page 5. They weren't much more visible in reality.
It even gives me options of much wider spacings than any bar would allow. The additional AB setup becomes, though, more important in such wide Tree setups, and the 3 omnis become sort of prominent spot mics.

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Any link to AEA bar ? Decca tree is very tempting technique ... I have to try it once ...

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/Microph...sitioners.html

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

3 separate stands (K&M 20800) here. Most flexible, and much more unobtrusive than one big stand in the middle. Look at my photos in the Show&Tell Thread, page 5. They weren't much more visible in reality.
It even gives me options of much wider spacings than any bar would allow. The additional AB setup becomes, though, more important in such wide Tree setups, and the 3 omnis become sort of prominent spot mics.

I do the same thing. Mostly because I haven't pulled the trigger on a $800.00 tree or made one myself. I keep meaning to find the time to get a machine shop to build me one but haven't.

The Decca tree is a great thing for strings and Orchestra in a good room.

http://mixonline.com/recording/appli...ree/index.html

Or do a search on www.mixonline.com Search for Decca Tree

There are a bunch of nice articles on there.

Good luck,
Michael Greene

[T.RayBullard]

Oh I know the applications and have read all the articles..it is logistics that concern me. Didnt know if anyone had come up with a clever design..800 is too damn expensive for a piece of metal.

Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio

I do the same thing. Mostly because I haven't pulled the trigger on a $800.00 tree or made one myself. I keep meaning to find the time to get a machine shop to build me one but haven't.

The Decca tree is a great thing for strings and Orchestra in a good room.

http://mixonline.com/recording/appli...ree/index.html

Or do a search on www.mixonline.com Search for Decca Tree

There are a bunch of nice articles on there.

Good luck,
Michael Greene

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

Oh I know the applications and have read all the articles..it is logistics that concern me. Didnt know if anyone had come up with a clever design..800 is too damn expensive for a piece of metal.

I agree and that is my same problem. I just eyeball it or if I am feeling very tweaky I pull out the tape measure. It doesn't matter how you get them in the air. It just matters what the relative spacing is.

[Larry Elliott]

The original trees used by Decca were made from Dexion - the material used for store room shelf frames. Not so nice to look at but very functional.

[fifthcircle]

Depends on the circumstances... I usually will have 3 stands out in session and some concert situations. if I can fly a tree, that is great, but it is usually a pain in the 4$$. You can make a tree pretty easily using pipe and mic clamps.

--Ben

[tamasdragon]

Usually we use 3 stands to create the decca tree. It's probably the most cost effective solution. Other is (as mentioned above) dexion. If you do some paintwork on them, they can look better than the original.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[ghellquist]

Searching as well.

I just saw that SabraSom has a Decca tree. Cannot find a price, but their other products come in at nice level.
http://www.sabrasom.com.br/detalhe_p...rod=SDT&lang=3

Gunnar

[klaukholm]

We fly the tree off an Avenger Junior Boom on a B150 Avenger crankstand.
It gives us reach, quick heightadjustment, and wheels for quick reposisioning.

I am very interested in stands and booms that are confirmed to work at 20-24ft. heights flying a tree 6-9 ft out from the stem.

I know the CRK is capable, but I would like to know the specific part names of the extension rod.

BTW in the EU the AEA goes for $1300.

Gunnar - we rent out m150's and trees if you ever want to try.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/Microph...sitioners.html

Oh, $800 ?? I am sure some local turner can make it for $50 (similarly as I did with the AB stereo bar - instead of $400 or so by DPA I paid about $20, the result was the same ...)

[klaukholm]

Just remember that weight and rigidity are two important issues.
Even the AEA is not a rigid as I would like when flying m50's.
Most booms cannot handle even the AEA at full extension
(ca 12-13 lbs with cables)

You don't want this thing coming down on top of a strad and a montagnana from 24ft high.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Just remember that weight and rigidity are two important issues.
Even the AEA is not a rigid as I would like when flying m50's.
Most booms cannot handle even the AEA at full extension
(ca 12-13 lbs with cables)

You don't want this thing coming down on top of a strad and a montagnana from 24ft high.

Well, yes ... But on the other hand, when using Schoeps omnis, weight is not an issue ... Maybe three separate stands or a stand with stereo bar + extra stand would also do ?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Usually we use 3 stands to create the decca tree. It's probably the most cost effective solution. Other is (as mentioned above) dexion. If you do some paintwork on them, they can look better than the original.
Regards Tamas Dragon

Dexion...anyone have info on these ??? This is what id like to use.

[Remoteness]

Dexion

[Larry Elliott]

The Dexio Product used was the Slotted Angle

http://www.dexion.com/products/kits/dexion_slotted.asp

Larry

[ghellquist]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Gunnar - we rent out m150's and trees if you ever want to try.

Kjetil,
I will keep that in mind. Might call you in a few weeks time anyway, always interested to hear and learn.

Gunnar

[fifthcircle]

Did a bit of research online. The SabraSom decca tree costs several hundred dollars. I saw one place that had it listed at a touch under a thousand (same price as the 5.1 rig), Another had the 5.1 for $700 so you may be able to find it cheaper...

--Ben

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Did a bit of research online. The SabraSom decca tree costs several hundred dollars. I saw one place that had it listed at a touch under a thousand (same price as the 5.1 rig), Another had the 5.1 for $700 so you may be able to find it cheaper...

--Ben

Thanks Ben. They are both rather expensive, so self fabrication is looking good at this point. Just have to find a machinist and do some measurements and material-shopping. I dont want anything flimsy or that looks homeade. My clients dont either.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

... or that looks homeade.

But that's the trouble with the Dexion meccano option, it is heavy and looks like its been built by Godzilla's bastard child.

I don't know what to suggest, I do not like the saggy look of the AEA when its extended and has some weighty mics onboard. I would use glass or carbon spar and some lightweight mics, otherwise the 3 stands is the way to go, to look pro, as this recent Berlin Phil session shows.<p>

[T.RayBullard]

glass or carbon spar??never heard of it, but I will surely look into it.

I finally got 3 matched omnis (4006, B+K) that I bought for the sole purpose of the tree. (and telarcs 3 omni method)

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

But that's the trouble with the Dexion meccano option, it is heavy and looks like its been built by Godzilla's bastard child.

I don't know what to suggest, I do not like the saggy look of the AEA when its extended and has some weighty mics onboard. I would use glass or carbon spar and some lightweight mics, otherwise the 3 stands is the way to go, to look pro, as this recent Berlin Phil session shows.<p>

[0VU]

I use Decca Trees a lot and have a few options.

I started off with a Dexion copy of the original Decca mount (I know a couple of enginners who worked with Decca through the 50s - 80s and picked their brains about it). The Dexion does the job but is ugly as hell, quite heavy, and not much fun to work with.

I bought an AEA Decca Tree mount which I like a lot for it's professional look and ease of assembly and use. It's straightforward to stand mount or hang, and looks about as good as that amount of metal can look floating above a bunch of musicians. The ability to slide the mics along the arms is useful for fine adjustments and the distance markings help with balancing it on setup. On the downside - as has been mentioned - with heavy mics (e.g. M50s/150s, Brauner VM1s or an AEA R88) it does look saggy, which doesn't inspire confidence. Under those higher loads, it also becomes quite springy and bounces about a bit if knocked. It's fine with most other mics though. Anything up to a TLM170 seems ok.

For lightweight mics like the Schoeps or DPA compacts and Neumann KM100s with capsule extensions, I've a home made tree mount which I put together out of tapered carbon fibre spars and some metalwork made by a friend who's a machinist specialising in custom mounts for movie cameras. He made a neat, black anodised aluminium block which takes three carbon fibre tapered spars, each about a metre long (the length is adjusted to put the mic centres at the right distances), on the ends of which are threaded inserts to which I fit the mini clips to mount the mics. The spars are as thin as I could sensibly get away with for the length and mic weight (iirr about 15mm at the wide (block) end) so are limited to light weight/compact mics. I've put KM130s on there without problems but DPAs are really too heavy for it and make the whole thing sag and bounce alarmingly. I've got some much thicker taperd tubes which could be used with a larger block for heavier mics but I haven't tried it yet as the whole idea of this approach was to make a discrete(ish) mount for compact mics. The present block can take different mounts for stand mounting or flying and the cables currently run along the outside of the spars but we're working up a new clamping block and some modified clip inserts which will allow me to run the cables down the inside of the spars and make the whole thing visually neater. We're also trying out some designs for small sliders to allow mics to be slid along the spars but with the taper on the spars it's been tricky. The present version assembles from it's case in about 5 minutes (just slide the spars into the block and do up three allen bolts), weighs about 3lbs, is easy to stand mount or fly and looks pretty good. So far it's cost about £60, not including the clips which I already had.

On sessions, where visual impact isn't a problem, I normally use three separate stands (K+M ST212 or 208/11 or, for extra reach, F+E booms or Ambient Jumbo booms on Manfrotto bases). I've also got a massive old lighting boom which will take the AEA Tree with three VM1s at full height and boom extension (about 4.5m for the column and 4m for the boom) but I hardly ever use it as it weighs about 250lbs assembled and looks like a piece of street furniture or a crane from an iron foundry!


For minimum visual impact in live situations, one trick is to suspend the tree mount itself much higher than usual and use compact mics or capsule extension cables, on cable hangers dropped from the mount. It's easier than hanging the individual mics and much more easily adjusted for tree spacing and height.

[t_chance]

I have wanted to build these (decca trees) for some time now and have a couple ideas for couplings and have some fiberglass and composite spars. I have a couple of questions.
1) What is the longest practical distance from center for
a) lighter mics
b) heavy mics
2) What are their respective weights, or better yet, the specific models of each.
3) Is being able to fly them important too, or should I concentrate on just mounting them to a stand?

If you folks give me some feedback I’d like to get this project into the building stage.

[klaukholm]

M150's weigh about 2 lbs each plus cables.

A typical tree is not more than 2 meters wide.
One meter forward should suffice.