Schoeps cmc5 vs cmc6

[dseetoo]

Originally Posted by Led

Not so much a versus thread, but I've had a cmc5 with an MK4 cap for years and was thinking about having a pair to use for some smaller recording, quartets etc. maybe the odd choir. Are the cmc6's that different? Could I get away with using one 5 and one 6 with the same caps or should I hunt for another 5, or maybe sell my 5 and get a pair of 6's? Just after some opinions from anyone who's used both. I mainly do studio recording but it would be handy to have a pair to use on the odd location.
Thanks

CMC5 and CMC6 have essentially the same signal path, or active circuit if you may. Although as far as I know CMC5 has at least two versions of circuit, one with an extra coupling capacitor between the capsule and FET. CMC6 has the ability to automatically accommodate very wide supply phantom voltage, something like from 12-52V due to the usage of active voltage regulator circuit whereas in CMC5 one has to manually replace a voltage dropping resistor in the power supply circuit to achieve the same result. Technically, CMC6 and CMC5 should sound identical but they don’t. The reason is that the active regulator in CMC6 uses a particular comparator IC which I think was a mistake to use in that particular circuit because the comparator part of the circuit is oscillating where it shouldn’t. (Schoeps scratched out the part number on the part so I have no way of finding out what part they used) I tried different ICs when I discovered that problem and found that the problem could be easily solved and I disclosed my finding to Mr. Wuttek before his retirement from Schoeps in one of our personal meetings and he said he would investigate into it. I never heard back from Mr. Wuttek or Schoeps since that meeting and I didn’t want to spend my time fixing every one of my CMC6 bodies, and I had a lot of them, so I replaced all of them with CMC5s instead.

So, to answer your question, I will say Keep your CMC5 bodies, you will not get any better sound from CMC6s.


Best regards,

Da-Hong

[David Spearritt]

I have purchased and continue to purchase only CMC5 bodies because of the simpler circuit and I always have only standards compliant 48V for the power supply. I have no need whatsoever to cater for other voltages, or require the low freq extension below 35Hz.

[Led]

Thanks for the replies.
Cheers

[Plush]

I also like to purchase the CMC5 because of its discrete circuit design. There is no chip in the #5 preamplifier.

It is humorous that in the Schoeps literature it is listed as "obsolete."

[Don S]

Originally Posted by dseetoo

Technically, CMC6 and CMC5 should sound identical but they don’t. The reason is that the active regulator in CMC6 uses a particular comparator IC which I think was a mistake to use in that particular circuit because the comparator part of the circuit is oscillating where it shouldn’t.

Da-Hong

Thank you for the information. I wasn't aware of how they achieved the voltage flexibility of the CMC6, and have never A/Bed them. What were you hearing in the 6 you did not like?

[c1ferrari]

Originally Posted by Plush

I also like to purchase the CMC5 because of its discrete circuit design. There is no chip in the #5 preamplifier.

It is humorous that in the Schoeps literature it is listed as "obsolete."

Plush,

Have you experienced a difference in the sound between stock CMC5's and 6's

Thanks

[dseetoo]

Originally Posted by c1ferrari

Plush,

Have you experienced a difference in the sound between stock CMC5's and 6's

Thanks

As I stated earlier, both CMC5 and CMC6 have essentially the same analog circuit, all discreet. Neither of them employed surface mount technology so by comparison, CMC6 circuit board is much more cramped than CMC5, I emphasize the word much. The power regulation circuit in CMC6 is more or less also discreet, except the usage of one IC chip as a comparator. The actual voltage regulation portion of the circuit is also discreet. As I mentioned earlier, the comparator IC in CMC6 is not implemented well and its output carries some oscillation, although it does not affect the voltage regulation it is still a form of noise, if you will. The noise is more measureable than audible, but it is audible, especially if you compare it to CMC5, both terminated with a dummy head. This was found more than 10 years ago, and I have stayed away from CMC6 since. Schopes may have made some changes to the CMC6 that I am not aware of as I have no examined a recent stock. The CMC6xt on the other hand, uses all surface mount parts.

BR,

Da-Hong

[c1ferrari]

Originally Posted by dseetoo

The noise is more measureable than audible, but it is audible, especially if you compare it to CMC5, both terminated with a dummy head.

BR,

Da-Hong

Thank you for amplifying your earlier post. For clarification, are you characterizing the difference as noise and not distortion? Can you describe the noise, i.e., how would the noise manifest itself, sonically?

I'm employing the Gordon Model 5, here, with CMC65's.

[mosrite]

I have never heard any extra noise with the CMC6 bodies over the CMC5's.

It might be worth checking with Schoeps to see if anything changed over the last 10 years. I would be suprised if Schoeps wouldn't bring this to the attention of buyers if it there was a measurable noise difference. I always understood the CMC6 to be the more up to date option.

[RFrommann]

Schoeps advises user not to mix CMC5 and CMC6 in a stereo pair for example.
And they try to get the people to buy the CMC6 with the argument of a better RF shielding and a higher price for the CMC5 after the price changes in september

[philper]

Originally Posted by RFrommann

Schoeps advises user not to mix CMC5 and CMC6 in a stereo pair for example.
And they try to get the people to buy the CMC6 with the argument of a better RF shielding and a higher price for the CMC5 after the price changes in september

IS there less RF interference w/ the 6? I mean in practice. (I work in a very high-RF area.)

philp

[dseetoo]

The noise difference between CMC5 and CMC6 is not huge, but it is there, easily identifiable if you test them with a dummy test head, by instrument or ear. Schoeps makes a dummy head which screws into the CMC bodies in the place of the cartridge for you to do all sort of tests to the bodies, bypassing any cartridge. It is especially useful for absolute noise level test. How audible of this noise difference is depends on a lot of things, such as the type of music, level of the music you are trying to record, as well as the mic preamp in your signal chain. For me, having firsthand knowledge that CMC5 is quieter is enough to empty all my CMC6 stocks.

Noise and distortion to me are the same thing; it is something I don’t want in my recordings.

Best regards,

Da-Hong

[c1ferrari]

Originally Posted by dseetoo

Noise and distortion to me are the same thing; it is something I don’t want in my recordings.

Best regards,

Da-Hong

Indeed, Da-Hong.
It looks like I should pick up a pair and evaluate

[GIACOMO-_]

How about +5db modification? I've seen use many +5b Schoeps as spot microphone. Dynamic range not change, but they can help in "pianissimo" (quietly) musical passage? (Less preamp gain and less noise)

[sonare]

If anyone wants to trade your CMC5s for CMC6s PM me. Doesn't matter if they are silver-- cosmetics really do not matter. I have a few pair of 6s with consequetive SRs for someone to whom that matters.

Rich