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Should photographers be banned at classical concerts?
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polytope
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#1
23rd October 2012
Old 23rd October 2012
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Should photographers be banned at classical concerts?

Why do cameras have such loud shutter noise? Shouldn't digital cameras be in silent mode when shooting in a classical music concert?! It totally ruined a recording that I did. (The only consolation I get is that it was just for archival purpose.)

Anyway, how do you battle the shutter noise?
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23rd October 2012
Old 23rd October 2012
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If it is an SLR type camera, the shutter noise is mechanical, weather it is digital or not. If it is just a regular digital, then the shutter noise is atrificial and should be off anyway. It drives me nuts when you can hear unnessisary camera noise (the mechanics in an slr are nessisart and make noise).

Oh and if it is any consolation, every videographer and photographer I know hates microphones with a passion.
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23rd October 2012
Old 23rd October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
If it is an SLR type camera, the shutter noise is mechanical, weather it is digital or not. If it is just a regular digital, then the shutter noise is atrificial and should be off anyway. It drives me nuts when you can hear unnessisary camera noise (the mechanics in an slr are nessisart and make noise).

Oh and if it is any consolation, every videographer and photographer I know hates microphones with a passion.
Thanks for the info.

The photographer was like snapping every 5 seconds. Drove me nuts!
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23rd October 2012
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Being a long time pro photographer myself I wholeheartedly agree that they should know when to click and when not. That's part of your job. Amateurs with cameras should be banned from concerts at all times. As a sound recordist I absolutely hate stupid people with cameras and when they do not know how to behave I have no problem walking up to them during the concert and making it clear to them that no pictures are allowed because of the recording.
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23rd October 2012
Old 23rd October 2012
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The guy who photographs the concerts I do has a whole "tent-style" shroud that he wraps his hands into and everything-- like you could make one yourself with a down parka vest and some duct tape, if you were desperate in an emergency and paramedics were on the way, and you also had a few choice clear plastic pie plates. I could imagine he's clicking every five seconds, the collections they send me for artwork are massive!!!
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23rd October 2012
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We've had them grab and lean against the main pair manfrotto for stability. Had to go and rouse on them during the concert to not do this. Clueless.
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23rd October 2012
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The pros would probably have one of these or similar:

Home Page

The amateurs, parents and such, should be told in the opening announcements that recording and shooting photos and videos is prohibited. Then, while mom and dad will still shoot from their seats with their iPhone, the wannabes with their DSLR can be quickly dealt with is they decide to break the "rules."

D.
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#8
23rd October 2012
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Old folks with chronic lung disease, coughing every 30 seconds.
People with allergy and cold, sneezing every 2 minute.

Should also be banned from the audience, if recording is intended.
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23rd October 2012
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As a photographer and recordist, I agree that sensitivity to the music is paramount in the photo capture of a live concert that's being recorded. 20+ years shooting the Nashville Symphony's archival and some of their promotional photos trained me well. And, I had the common sense to use non-motordrive cameras (back in film days) and to shoot only on loud passages. I'd often attend to listen before an assignment so as to get a sense of which pieces had the SPL to cover the noise, and the best expressions/gestures from the Maestro. Good to have a plan. Never heard a complaint... and I would have, had I erred. So... no reason to hate on me.

Today there are several cameras like the FujiFilm HS25/30 which offer high ISO, long lens, image stabilization, High Dynamic Range compensation, and totally silent operation. Not DSLR quality, ultimately... but not far off. Plenty good for small inset photos and the like. I'd still prefer the D800 and a loud passage for a wraparound cover shot, but could certainly make use of the Fuji.

Now... hacking sneezers... another kettle of fish, entirely...

HB
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#10
23rd October 2012
Old 23rd October 2012
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Photographs in rehearsal is what I say. I had a right pain in the ass gig last year at the Sheldonian. The organisers brought a photographer to take pictures of the orchestra in full flight and hired me to record th egig for sale later on. Duh!!

"what's all these clicks?"

"its the photographer"...

wait for it

"why did you record him?"
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24th October 2012
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What you hear with the DSLR's is the camera's mirror snapping up. There are one or two, SONY I believe, which has a fixed mirror DSLR which is totally silent. But folks mostly shoot with Canon or Nikon which can be bought at a big box discount stores and these fellows can be quite loud. The weather sealed ones are quieter but still audible, especially when planted in the middle of a flute solo or the like.

A concert without the geriatric TB ward present is a fantasy. They always show up with hard candies to be unwrapped and sucked, loudly.
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24th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Photographs in rehearsal is what I say. I had a right pain in the ass gig last year at the Sheldonian. The organisers brought a photographer to take pictures of the orchestra in full flight and hired me to record th egig for sale later on. Duh!!

"what's all these clicks?"

"its the photographer"...

wait for it

"why did you record him?"
It really amazes me what people, many musicians included, think you can do with recordings. "can't you just edit that out in the studio?" I hear it all the time on things- as if you can manipulate anything now or later, without regard for how/when/where it is captured.
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24th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
Old folks with chronic lung disease, coughing every 30 seconds.
People with allergy and cold, sneezing every 2 minute.

Should also be banned from the audience, if recording is intended.
Strange Post of the Week Award
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24th October 2012
Old 24th October 2012
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Quote:
"what's all these clicks?"

"its the photographer"...

wait for it

"why did you record him?"
That's very funny. If it weren't so funny it would be very sad.
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24th October 2012
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I always tell em 'only in the loud bits'
Most pros have blimps,they are expensive though, I tell amateurs to use waterproof housings or get banned.
The festival I do has in residence painters and photographers shooting, rehearsal and live.
They are always discrete,and shoot from long distances.
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24th October 2012
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Most of the groups we record have printed notices in the program saying no cameras, no flash pictures and no recording of the concert . They also announce this at the beginning of every concert. Some parents either are deaf or blind or both because they keep snapping away with their cameras. If it isn't their cameras it is their Iphones. One person even tried to tape their zoom recorder to our main mic stand.

I have been in pro audio for over 42 years and this type of behavior has recently been increasing. Helicopter parents are trying to document their offspring's every move and every "achievement" and don't seem to get the idea that they are interrupting the concert, upsetting others who are trying to enjoy the music and generally making themselves unwelcome audience members. At one student orchestra concert the flashes became so annoying that the conductor had to stop the concert and ask people to respect the orchestra enough to stop taking pictures. Even after that announcement there were still a few parents that just couldn't help themselves and still took pictures. I guess in their eyes the announcement was meant for everyone else.

A a recent classical concert a family was sitting together in row three of the concert hall. They all had cameras and were constantly clicking them during the concert. It would not have been too bad if they waited until the FFF parts of the program but they seemed to be snapping more the quieter the piece became. You can clearly hear the Dad's and the Mom's SLR on the recording in places. At intermission one of the ushers went over to ask them not to take pictures during the concert and was told by the Dad that "I paid for the tickets to see this concert and should be able to do what I want while I am here". I guess that sums up what a lot of helicopter parents currently think.

As to coughing and sneezing I guess it adds to the feeling you are really in a concert and not in a recording studio.

Good topic.
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polytope
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24th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
As to coughing and sneezing I guess it adds to the feeling you are really in a concert and not in a recording studio.

Good topic.
Maybe we'll just have to get used to the fact that camera noise is part of the live sound.
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24th October 2012
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Not at my gigs
Sneezing and coughing is the limit I thought,patheticaly
This year it was howling deaf aids and an out of control bloke on a mobility scooter who was always parked up front stage and caused havoc backing up and down bumping and thumping...
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24th October 2012
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I had to ask a group recently to ask their photographer to stop taking pictures during the concert. Which they did at the intermission. They had no problem with it because the photographer was also bugging the musicians. Obviously some people are not intelligent enough to understand you should not take close up shots of a musician by standing two feet away from them while they are trying to play.

Most photographers I've had to work along side have more common sense though. So I wouldn't say it is a chronic issue with all people in that field. And I have had good success erasing camera clicks in RX on quieter sections. Dealing with PITA noises is part of field recording I suppose, either by telling the noise source to shut the hell up, attempting to remove it later, or accepting it for what it is.
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26th October 2012
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Musicians should stand up and ask them to stop. There is no place for taking pictures openly, causing visual and acoustical disturbance during a concert.
People have no common sense and manners anymore.
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26th October 2012
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Talking

THIS is a musician's reaction when someone's phone rings in the middle of a performance.
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26th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
THIS is a musician's reaction when someone's phone rings in the middle of a performance.
I see people at classical concerts texting on their cell phones and working on their IPADs. It must be very disconcerting for the musicians on stage to know what they are trying to do is only background music for someone texting or working on their IPAD. I have not seen anyone pull out a laptop but I am sure there are instances of that being done as well. The same goes for going to the movie theater. People texting and pulling out IPADs in the middle of the movie. One theater near here has put up signs saying "No Cell Phone USE during the movie" and "We WILL ask you to leave if you don't comply" but so far, since there are no ushers in the theater during the movie, it never gets enforced. Ah the "modern age" and the need to stay constantly in touch with some "remote" person.
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26th October 2012
Old 26th October 2012
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My wife is a musician and music educator. When we attend concerts, she needs little provocation to tell inconsiderate patrons to belt up. Can be embarrassing (for me ) but someone has to do it!
Quote
1
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26th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRH View Post
she needs little provocation to tell inconsiderate patrons to belt up.!
Their pants are loose? What if they are wearing suspenders? I'm Konfuzed???
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26th October 2012
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Probably asks them to "suspender their disbelief" or something similar.
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27th October 2012
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Yes, photography and moving around in the hall should be banned at any un-amplified concerts and free mint candies should be given to all that intend to cough - many times I think it is nervousness related - people just can't keep silent for so long. I have never ever coughed at concerts in my life... if I have serious cold I usually don't go out anyway... and I can clear my throat during the applause if I REALLY have to. Sometimes I prefer listening on a good hi-fi system, because audience can be too annoying and distracting.

Photographers walking around, the noise of shutters in reverberant spaces and un-amplified music just don't mix well...

Actually I must say that I never saw any photographer during serious classical concerts - not some school production - there must already be such agreement here. But there was one un-amplified jazzy-classical concert (only a duet of violin and viola) in one acoustically very live baroque salon and the photographers were ruining it... I hated their lack of sensitivity sooooo much... they just wouldn't stop shooting even when the people started moaning in protest... idiots.
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27th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Y

Actually I must say that I never saw any photographer during serious classical concerts - not some school production - there must already be such agreement here.
Yes I have never seen a photographer at a Cleveland Orchestra concert but did see a couple at an Apollo's Fire Concert at a church.

One of the children's choirs we record does a photo shoot of the assembled group before the concert once or twice every year. The photographer is GREAT to work with and although we have to take down all our microphones if he is late he is always so nice that you want to help him anyway you can. He has offered more than once to help us take our equipment out to my van after the concert. I wish there were more photographers like him.

I don't think people realize how really annoying and disrespectful they can be when the are taking photographs at a live acoustic concert even though they are told not to in the program and with vocal announcements from the stage. I don't think they would like people coming into their homes and taking unlimited photos of them and their children without permission but that does not seem to detract them from doing it in a concert hall.
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27th October 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
THIS is a musician's reaction when someone's phone rings in the middle of a performance.
Great player actually!!
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28th October 2012
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You can always get a few plug-uglies to stand (silently) in the way of the photographers. If you need to spell it out (and given the run of this thread, you probably do) they can wear t-shirts saying 'we can hear your cameras'.

Or something like that. Or have the orchestra stop to photograph each other and make calls just when it's getting interesting. The danger being, of course, that the sort of person who use technology in the middle of a live concert would probably find the diversion more interesting than the actual programme. As for helicopter parents, haven't they heard of unparenting yet, for f*'s sake?
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28th October 2012
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Photographers ARE banned from the venues I work in. Also there is no photography allowed from cell phones. If it is seen the violator is escorted from the hall.

One hall I work in is very strict (like the Homeland Security Office) about this policy.
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