Location Sound Dampening options for loud HVAC

[Earcatcher]

Run a guide track and dub it.

[stephenv2]

Originally Posted by Earcatcher

Run a guide track and dub it.

I hate ADR or dubbed vocals. So if we can't shoot live here, we will find another place.

[philper]

Originally Posted by stephenv2

I hate ADR or dubbed vocals. So if we can't shoot live here, we will find another place.

Find another place. The HVAC will ruin your dialog track, cause you to ruin it further trying to fix it in post and the sound will ruin the film no matter how good the story, acting and picture are. There is no magic bullet for this problem.

philp

[stephenv2]

That's probably what we will do - but wanted to see if anyone had solved this problem in the field. It's not HVAC noise in the room itself, it's engine/motor noise from the room itself.

[Richard Crowley]

An Open Letter from your Sound Department - A Production Sound Manifesto written by audio professionals

[stephenv2]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

An Open Letter from your Sound Department - A Production Sound Manifesto written by audio professionals

While I appreciate the sentiment - perhaps I'm not clear. I'm quite familiar with that link. But perhaps before posting a snarky link, you should at least determine if the person you are talking to requires snarkiness.

I'm a very experienced filmmaker (and have done freelance location sound myself). I'm fully and painfully aware of this.

My post was seeing if anyone had been forced to deal with this issue and any creative solutions when one is forced to deal with location noise (e.g. shooting with an IMAX camera) or unavoidable location noise.

I'm sure production newbies and people seeking Sound 101 post here all the time - I'm not one of them.

However, to match the tone of the responses here is the replies thus far have contained no actual thought, asked no insightful questions and utterly devoid of useful information.

[depulse]

Are you allowed to modify the space? In that case it's probably better to post a question in the studio construction area of this forum. There are many very knowledgeable persons there who can help you with ideas how to address this problem.

It sounds like you would need to build another insulated wall (plasterboards + rockwool) to block the noice. Exactly how thick it should be and how many layers is hard to say without seeing some pictures of the place and measurements.

[stephenv2]

Originally Posted by depulse

Are you allowed to modify the space?

Not at all. We would have to bring in some type of free standing items. The one detail that concerns me is that the walls are cinderblock/concrete and the main floor (this is a basement room, so that floor is it's ceiling) is metal and much of the sound with resonate even with wall barrier.

I am going back to test with a digital recorder, SPL meter and some representative mics and some improvised materials, but I think it's probably not doable.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by stephenv2

Noise is constant, runs 24-7, only shuts off annually went boiler for heat (in other part of building turns on).

annually - you mean one day a year? or is it off all winter? Winter's just around the corner.

you could always shoot on "that" day

[Rolo 46]

You could Cedar it,try a test record of dialog

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Or RX2

A couple of years ago a video client asked if we could get rid of some HVAC noise. The talent was standing right in front of a 16 by 16 by 16 foot HVAC unit on a roof and it was running full on. At the time we could not "get rid of all the noise and leave the dialog untouched" as the videographer wanted but we could probably do that today with RX2 from Izotope. I asked the videographer why he had chosen to put the talent right in front of a large HVAC unit that was running and producing a noise level louder than the client could possibly speak over and he said "cause it looked cool" We were able, back when, to get the noise down considerably and the videographer was skillful enough to do an ADR and replace the audio using the material we had worked on as a guide track.

If you are having noise problems it is probably NOT a good idea to do the shoot in that location and instead find another location or to some ADR later. If this is a short dialog bit maybe you can get the management or building engineer to shut off the system for a couple of minutes especially if you can do this at night when the building is not occupied. Problem solved...

As to the acoustical material. It just "ain't going to happen". You would need a lot of mass and probably some way to isolate the talent and the boom operator from the floor as a lot of mechanical noise travels through concrete.

Best of luck!

[Richard Crowley]

Originally Posted by stephenv2

While I appreciate the sentiment - perhaps I'm not clear. I'm quite familiar with that link. But perhaps before posting a snarky link, you should at least determine if the person you are talking to requires snarkiness.

I'm a very experienced filmmaker (and have done freelance location sound myself). I'm fully and painfully aware of this.

My post was seeing if anyone had been forced to deal with this issue and any creative solutions when one is forced to deal with location noise (e.g. shooting with an IMAX camera) or unavoidable location noise.

I'm sure production newbies and people seeking Sound 101 post here all the time - I'm not one of them.

However, to match the tone of the responses here is the replies thus far have contained no actual thought, asked no insightful questions and utterly devoid of useful information.

No snark was intended. As you say, others come along after us who need that information. There are no magic solutions.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by stephenv2

While I appreciate the sentiment - perhaps I'm not clear. I'm quite familiar with that link. But perhaps before posting a snarky link, you should at least determine if the person you are talking to requires snarkiness.

I'm a very experienced filmmaker (and have done freelance location sound myself). I'm fully and painfully aware of this.

My post was seeing if anyone had been forced to deal with this issue and any creative solutions when one is forced to deal with location noise (e.g. shooting with an IMAX camera) or unavoidable location noise.

I'm sure production newbies and people seeking Sound 101 post here all the time - I'm not one of them.

However, to match the tone of the responses here is the replies thus far have contained no actual thought, asked no insightful questions and utterly devoid of useful information.

I respectfully suggest that the above being the case, you should know that there isn't any fast, magic fix, indeed on most professional films they would simply either dismiss the location or, ADR afterwards. Being that probably 70% of all the dialog we all see at the cinema will have been ADR'd, I wouldn't be so reluctant, it's another chance to show off your skill.

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by stephenv2

While I appreciate the sentiment - perhaps I'm not clear. I'm quite familiar with that link. But perhaps before posting a snarky link, you should at least determine if the person you are talking to requires snarkiness.

I don't believe that the link is snarky but it does speak the truth. Even (really) experienced film-makers constantly make mistakes related to their sound track. Always humbling to remember that the stuff in the letter has the ability to alter perceptions that will, in the end, make your movie better.

I also agree with others here who say find another location or shoot planning on looping the dialog.

D.

[2manyrocks]

Nothing struck me as snarky in that link. I thought the link went out of the way to diplomatically say, think about these issues, please.

Of course, if the OP goes ahead and records and then it can't be fixed later, the OP will probably get the blame. So I'd look at it from the standpoint of what will it cost if things go badly wrong?

[DannyL]

There are a number of approaches to mics and sound isolation, but with modern technology, it is now possible to use a noise print to remove the undesired sounds by using a digital cleaning program. This is certainly not optimal, but could be worth a try. It gives one a whole new set of reasons to record room tone.

[philper]

Originally Posted by DannyL

There are a number of approaches to mics and sound isolation, but with modern technology, it is now possible to use a noise print to remove the undesired sounds by using a digital cleaning program. This is certainly not optimal, but could be worth a try. It gives one a whole new set of reasons to record room tone.

It's far from optimal, and the results will never be as open and clear sounding as the same dialog recorded without NR. With any NR, but most especially with any "fingerprint" type NR, it is very easy to improve the sound into a ruin. These tools are useful mostly when there is no alternative--other methods not reducing the noise enough, and non-replaceable audio as in a documentary. It is very foolish to go INTO a recording situation believing that those tools will save you. Have some respect for the actors--find them a good place to act.

phil p

[Richard Crowley]

Originally Posted by DannyL

There are a number of approaches to mics and sound isolation, but with modern technology, it is now possible to use a noise print to remove the undesired sounds by using a digital cleaning program. This is certainly not optimal, but could be worth a try. It gives one a whole new set of reasons to record room tone.

I have never heard (or heard of) this being done successfully. It ALWAYS involves significant trauma to the desired signal. The more noise you remove, the more "metalic" the remaining audio signal sounds. I would NEVER recommend relying on this as a solution to recording in an unsuitable location.

[rmx16]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

An Open Letter from your Sound Department - A Production Sound Manifesto written by audio professionals

[aracu]

I agree with Roland that a high percentage of the high quality dialogue in modern cinema is done in ADR. Even some older classic films such as "The 400 Blows" were done completely in ADR. There are some very poor examples as well such as "La Strada", a great classic film with absurdly out of sinch ADR.

A good approach is to plan on re-doing all the dialogue in ADR. If the ADR is well directed it will be hard to tell that it has been done. Try to make as good a location recording as possible under the circumstances to help match the ADR later.